New Trans

greyford1979

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So my trans has been starting to take longer to shift and bangs into third if I'm on it a little harder than normal, mainly when getting on the expressway. It's the original trans with 290,000 miles on it. Worth even flushing and doing new fluid or will I be looking to put a new one in it soon?
 

Northwoods2002

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The flush arguably will speed up the deterioration of the trans. You don't say if you have any aftermarket parts or not, but at that mileage, even on a stock engine, that trans has been well used.

Save your money for a rebuild.
 

greyford1979

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I do have mods including injectors. The trans really hasn't taken a liking to the injectors ever since I put them in last summer LOL. Also really not sure how happy it will be if I take it to the Silver Lake sand dunes with it in its current state, which will probably be some time this summer. I know my brother's truck with a John Woods trans definitely feels better than mine lol. I've seen in some threads that you have mentioned your trans, Arisley, being in need of some help as well. How many miles and how long have you beem limping yours around?
 

cbf9703

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I do have mods including injectors. The trans really hasn't taken a liking to the injectors ever since I put them in last summer LOL. Also really not sure how happy it will be if I take it to the Silver Lake sand dunes with it in its current state, which will probably be some time this summer. I know my brother's truck with a John Woods trans definitely feels better than mine lol. I've seen in some threads that you have mentioned your trans, Arisley, being in need of some help as well. How many miles and how long have you beem limping yours around?
You can limp it around, but I'd personally plan to upgrade to a new trans. My ex was bone stock when I got it.... Trans did not like the injectors and tuning upgrade (installed first week I had it). I babied the stock trans for the first year IIRC. I didn't wait for it to go out before I upgraded, so who knows how long I could have run it. The stock trans made it past 300k though. The truck and I have been much happier the last few years with an upgraded trans, especially since I tow with it and it has been offroad some turkey hunting.

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greyford1979

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You can limp it around, but I'd personally plan to upgrade to a new trans. My ex was bone stock when I got it.... Trans did not like the injectors and tuning upgrade (installed first week I had it). I babied the stock trans for the first year IIRC. I didn't wait for it to go out before I upgraded, so who knows how long I could have run it. The stock trans made it past 300k though. The truck and I have been much happier the last few years with an upgraded trans, especially since I tow with it and it has been offroad some turkey hunting.

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I've already started getting quotes, I'm sure Ill be doing it sooner than later. My biggest fear is I'll be up in the dunes, 6 hours from home and it's gonna let go on me lol. Already know about the usual suspects everyone recommends, as well as a couple local to me. Just sucks how much it costs for a well built one LOL.
 

cbf9703

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I've already started getting quotes, I'm sure Ill be doing it sooner than later. My biggest fear is I'll be up in the dunes, 6 hours from home and it's gonna let go on me lol. Already know about the usual suspects everyone recommends, as well as a couple local to me. Just sucks how much it costs for a well built one LOL.
I don't blame you. I've never ridden up there, but always wanted to... Had a roommate from MI that used to talk about it.

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greyford1979

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I don't blame you. I've never ridden up there, but always wanted to... Had a roommate from MI that used to talk about it.

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We'll be up there some time this summer, probably late summer. More than welcome if ya ever decide to go up. Probably rent the same place we stayed at in September. Although it's usually a sausage fest with the group of us that go up LOL :lookaround:
 

greyford1979

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I stare at this pic all day long at work. Made it the wallpaper on my dual monitor setup at work from September's trip LOL
IMG_20150919_194102124_HDR_zps5jxr8vub.jpg
 

Arisley

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I do have mods including injectors. The trans really hasn't taken a liking to the injectors ever since I put them in last summer LOL. Also really not sure how happy it will be if I take it to the Silver Lake sand dunes with it in its current state, which will probably be some time this summer. I know my brother's truck with a John Woods trans definitely feels better than mine lol. I've seen in some threads that you have mentioned your trans, Arisley, being in need of some help as well. How many miles and how long have you beem limping yours around?

I have not driven my truck in over a year. Thought the trans had finally let go. Nope, still hanging in there, it has a broken flex plate. Trans, is original as far as I know. Upgraded valve body and torque converter. It has 360,000 on it.
 

greyford1979

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That sucks man. I'll most likely end up replacing the flex plate as well. I would hate to do all that and a few thousand miles later end up having to replace it afterwards, that would be my luck. LOL
 

greyford1979

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Well now comes the hardest part, whose trans to go with? I know I will get the BTS and John Wood answers after all the reading I have done. And it's hard not to go with one of those 2 after all the reading LOL. Just hard to make a decision when dropping that much coin and none of them are local, so you either install it yourself or spend some more coin to have it installed. Also the cost of shipping and fluid on top of it and being so far away if something did happen. Only know of a couple local builders, besides your everyday trans shop. One is Janis transmission, but not known for diesels, mainly for race cars. The other is Redline Diesel Power, but they're mostly known for the Cummins. Only one I have any personal experience with is John Wood, my brother went with his when his let go. Damn life decisions LOL.
 

cbf9703

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Well now comes the hardest part, whose trans to go with? I know I will get the BTS and John Wood answers after all the reading I have done. And it's hard not to go with one of those 2 after all the reading LOL. Just hard to make a decision when dropping that much coin and none of them are local, so you either install it yourself or spend some more coin to have it installed. Also the cost of shipping and fluid on top of it and being so far away if something did happen. Only know of a couple local builders, besides your everyday trans shop. One is Janis transmission, but not known for diesels, mainly for race cars. The other is Redline Diesel Power, but they're mostly known for the Cummins. Only one I have any personal experience with is John Wood, my brother went with his when his let go. Damn life decisions LOL.
I've heard good things about John Woods and others, but mine are local builds. Dealt with BTS warranty issues in the past (personally and a couple friends) and wanted convenience and not having to deal with the wait times if something happened. From what it's sounded like your plans for the truck are, I don't see why an established, reputable trans builder can't make one live for you... There's no magic pixie dust in there.

FWIW, one of my trans has almost $3k worth of hard parts that I had shipped in for my local assembly, it fit with my goals better. I may be the lone voice of big names are still just trans builders, but thought I'd throw it out there.

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bluedge8

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A flush will not kill an old trans, it will not speed up the deterioration of a trans. All old wives tails.

Not to argue with you but I used to work for GE Capital Fleet Services in their Vehicle maintenance dept. GE leased at the time 500,000 fleet vehicles to company's like Xerox, State farm and Southern pacific Railway. They had 100,000 of those vehicles on our maintenance program, we charged a flat fee of $5 per vehicle per month and we authorized ALL repairs for the fleet using the individual fleets recommendations. We paid the vendors for the repairs, kept track of every single repair or maintenance done on every vehicle and then sent the fleet one bill each month for all of their vehicle repairs. It really was a slick system and saved fleets countless thousands on repairs that either weren't needed or were warranty. Anyway we could prove that flushing a trans that did not have regular service done would fail faster than leaving it alone (remember that we coded and tracked EVERY repair done to 100,000 vehicles annually). There could be a few reasons for this, my theory is that by the time you felt something going on with the trans it was basically done but when you did a service it was almost like you were taking friction material out of the fluid and caused to much clearance and the trans went quicker. When a shop would ask for a flush due to driver complaint we always had more miles to failure when we left it alone vs. doing a flush. But we also recommended either maintain the trans as recommended by the mfg or don't touch it, anything in between caused quicker failures. I worked there from '91-'00 and that remained constant the entire time I was there- we pulled that report from our data base 3 times a year.
 

greyford1979

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I've heard good things about John Woods and others, but mine are local builds. Dealt with BTS warranty issues in the past (personally and a couple friends) and wanted convenience and not having to deal with the wait times if something happened. From what it's sounded like your plans for the truck are, I don't see why an established, reputable trans builder can't make one live for you... There's no magic pixie dust in there.

FWIW, one of my trans has almost $3k worth of hard parts that I had shipped in for my local assembly, it fit with my goals better. I may be the lone voice of big names are still just trans builders, but thought I'd throw it out there.

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Yeah that's the main reason why I got local quotes as well. The convenience thing would make it nice if something happened. Also the quotes were very close in price for what I want from pretty much everyone. And like I said, Redline is well known around here, just more for the Dodge/Cummins guys. They've built a lot of pullers that have way more power than mine will ever see. Would be a lot easier if there was only one option out there LOL. My luck, I could get the baddest trans ever made and it will grenade itself just turning on the truck LOL.

Forgot to add, I did enjoy reading all the fights that broke out over who builds the best on the many different forums lol.
 
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Mark Kovalsky

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The flush arguably will speed up the deterioration of the trans
Yes, I'll argue that. It's wrong. There is NOTHING in old fluid that helps keeo the trans together. There is NOTHING in new fluid that speeds up the deterioration of the trans. It's an old wive's tale that simply isn't true.

Now if the trans is damaged, flushing it won't fix it. The trans would still die, but the new fluid didn't cause it, the previous damage before the flush caused it.
 

Mark Kovalsky

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There could be a few reasons for this, my theory is that by the time you felt something going on with the trans it was basically done but when you did a service it was almost like you were taking friction material out of the fluid and caused to much clearance and the trans went quicker.
So what you're saying here is that you don't know how an automatic transmission works, but this is your theory of why they fail.

When a shop would ask for a flush due to driver complaint
Here's my theory, and feel free to poke holes in it.

Once the trans gets to the point where the driver complains about it, it's done. Especially in a fleet vehicle where the driver doesn't own it, and doesn't pay for repairs. It's going to get BAD before they complain. At this point the trans is finished. Flushing it will do NOTHING bad to the trans, but it can't fix the failed parts, either. So it dies. It would have died in about the same time if it were ignored.
 

mandkole

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Yeah that's the main reason why I got local quotes as well. The convenience thing would make it nice if something happened. Also the quotes were very close in price for what I want from pretty much everyone. And like I said, Redline is well known around here, just more for the Dodge/Cummins guys. They've built a lot of pullers that have way more power than mine will ever see. Would be a lot easier if there was only one option out there LOL. My luck, I could get the baddest trans ever made and it will grenade itself just turning on the truck LOL.

Forgot to add, I did enjoy reading all the fights that broke out over who builds the best on the many different forums lol.

For a street driven truck up to 500 or so HP (or real heavy tow), there are lots of good local builders for a 4R, you just have to look. You don't even have to slather billet all over it either--my trans does not have one billet piece except for the converter cover. The 4R has been scienced out by many and the tricks are well known to meet most applications. I said this in my earlier trans threads, I want a local builder for a trans. My refreshed trans works exactly the same as it did when BTS built it, but don't have the converter issues.
 

greyford1979

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For a street driven truck up to 500 or so HP (or real heavy tow), there are lots of good local builders for a 4R, you just have to look. You don't even have to slather billet all over it either--my trans does not have one billet piece except for the converter cover. The 4R has been scienced out by many and the tricks are well known to meet most applications. I said this in my earlier trans threads, I want a local builder for a trans. My refreshed trans works exactly the same as it did when BTS built it, but don't have the converter issues.

Yeah the one that's local to me, I imagine if they can make them last behind pulling trucks and race trucks, you would think they could build one to live behind a modest truck like mine lol.
 

bluedge8

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Yes, I'll argue that. It's wrong. There is NOTHING in old fluid that helps keeo the trans together. There is NOTHING in new fluid that speeds up the deterioration of the trans. It's an old wive's tale that simply isn't true.

Now if the trans is damaged, flushing it won't fix it. The trans would still die, but the new fluid didn't cause it, the previous damage before the flush caused it.
I think your right as far as the trans already being hurt and effectively masking the "flush or not" reports. But you see it time after time, shop does trans service without asking and 3-5k miles later trans goes out. What I cant tell you is why.
So what you're saying here is that you don't know how an automatic transmission works, but this is your theory of why they fail.


Here's my theory, and feel free to poke holes in it.

Once the trans gets to the point where the driver complains about it, it's done. Especially in a fleet vehicle where the driver doesn't own it, and doesn't pay for repairs. It's going to get BAD before they complain. At this point the trans is finished. Flushing it will do NOTHING bad to the trans, but it can't fix the failed parts, either. So it dies. It would have died in about the same time if it were ignored.

I don't know much about transmissions in all honesty, but I have a general Idea of how they work. Mark, I would not try to challenge you on cause, I assume ford spent some time on how the failed. But I have seen this played out literally thousands of times- both when the driver complains and when the shop takes it upon themselves to do a trans service- So I will back off and say that I don't know why there were failures but they were trackable with our database.
 
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