04 ex w/low hpop pressure

[gwunter]

Just picked up an 05 with unknown issues. Appears to be bone stock from intake to exhaust tip. 260k miles. I have a crank but no start issue. I have a code that points to the ipr, but I don't know if it would cause the no start. I have checked the ficm, and my results check out good. I have no smoke of any color out the exhaust while cranking.

The guy I bought it from thought it had bad head gaskets because of white smoke out the exhaust while running, but it has never puked out the degas. Still has an egr in place and assumed functioning. I'm assuming nothing has been updated as far as stand pipe, dummy, stc, etc goes. Here's a couple pics of forscan logs. This is probably on a 10-15 second crank. Any thoughts on where to focus on would great. I dont know if bad o-ring seals on the hpo would still only generate such low psi, or if there's a bigger issue.

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[6.0 Tech]

Just picked up an 05 with unknown issues. Appears to be bone stock from intake to exhaust tip. 260k miles. I have a crank but no start issue. I have a code that points to the ipr, but I don't know if it would cause the no start. I have checked the ficm, and my results check out good. I have no smoke of any color out the exhaust while cranking.

The guy I bought it from thought it had bad head gaskets because of white smoke out the exhaust while running, but it has never puked out the degas. Still has an egr in place and assumed functioning. I'm assuming nothing has been updated as far as stand pipe, dummy, stc, etc goes. Here's a couple pics of forscan logs. This is probably on a 10-15 second crank. Any thoughts on where to focus on would great. I dont know if bad o-ring seals on the hpo would still only generate such low psi, or if there's a bigger issue. View attachment 187169View attachment 187170

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Gonna have to air test it and verify if the ipr is working or if you just have a large leak. The threads for the icp are 12x1.75 or 1.5 if I remember right. Does this have the 05 or 04 pump in it?


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[gwunter]

Gonna have to air test it and verify if the ipr is working or if you just have a large leak. The threads for the icp are 12x1.75 or 1.5 if I remember right. Does this have the 05 or 04 pump in it?


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Forgot to mention I purchased an ipr socket with screen and new o-rings and air fittings. I can machine an icp adapter no problem. I dont know the differences in hpops. I think it's a late 04 as it had a 4-screw ficm.

Icp is on pass valve cover.

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[6.0 Tech]

Forgot to mention I purchased an ipr socket with screen and new o-rings and air fittings. I can machine an icp adapter no problem. I dont know the differences in hpops. I think it's a late 04 as it had a 4-screw ficm.

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The 04 pump has a cast iron cover and you can’t see any of the pump, the 05+ pumps had an aluminum cover, and a cast iron pump, and there is a cutout oval in the top of it and you can see the top of the pump. The 05 pumps have the ipr screw directly into the pump, whereas the 03-04 pumps the ipr screws into the pump cover.

03-04 pumps shit the bed all the time, 05+ pumps rarely ever die. I can probably count on 1 hand the amount of 05 pumps I’ve seen fail, and 3 of them were in our race truck that I don’t really think counts, as we’re pushing it way past what it’s designed to do


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[bismic]

It is unfortunate that the Excursions were used as the "outlet" for the excess engines from the previous year!

As the vehicle owner, it is important for you to know if you have an 04 engine or an 05 engine.

The way to tell is the HPOP and the HPOP cover as described above! Take a picture and post it, if you can!

 

[gwunter]

I'll start pulling stuff off the engine tonight to see it better.

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[gwunter]

Been having some tapatalk/forum issues and haven't been able to update...

I think I have the newer style hpop. I finally got the turbo off, that was kind of a pain. The turbo appears to be locked up and won't spin, tag reads remanufactured. Maybe time for a 363, idk.

Really thinking about just pulling the engine and going down the ol 6.0 rabbit hole.


Reread 6.0 tech's post above....and i still don't know what hpop I have.

 

[6.0 Tech]

Been having some tapatalk/forum issues and haven't been able to update...

I think I have the newer style hpop. I finally got the turbo off, that was kind of a pain. The turbo appears to be locked up and won't spin, tag reads remanufactured. Maybe time for a 363, idk.

Really thinking about just pulling the engine and going down the ol 6.0 rabbit hole.


Reread 6.0 tech's post above....and i still don't know what hpop I have.

That’s the old style pump, air test from the icp sensor hole, command the ipr fully closed and open a few times. Should hear a difference I. Airflow going from full closed to full open. If you don’t, the ipr is probably bad. However, if it had a massive leak, you sometimes can’t hear the difference. Listen out the oil cap and the ccv hole to determine which side the leak is on.

If you thought pulling a stock turbo was a pain in the ass, I would definitely stay clear of a non vgt. They are royal ****s to change. Give us a shout here at KC turbos, and we can get you setup with a turbo that’ll match what you want to do. We also sell injectors and hpops if it comes down to either one of those, and our customer service guys will make sure you get a setup that matches what you want to do with the truck.


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[gwunter]

Trying to figure out what this setup is exactly. My ICP is clearly mounted on the passenger valve cover, but the HPOP is the old style. I've read comments here about ford throwing together leftover parts to make the Ex.

Upon heavy reading, does this thing probably have new style oil rail(wavy)....with the old style hpop? Sounds like it could be that odd.

Ol gal has 260k on I'm assuming all internal engine parts. If I pull the engine to check heads and stud it, would I be wise to install a new style HPOP?

Thanks.

 

[6.0 Tech]

Trying to figure out what this setup is exactly. My ICP is clearly mounted on the passenger valve cover, but the HPOP is the old style. I've read comments here about ford throwing together leftover parts to make the Ex.

Upon heavy reading, does this thing probably have new style oil rail(wavy)....with the old style hpop? Sounds like it could be that odd.

Ol gal has 260k on I'm assuming all internal engine parts. If I pull the engine to check heads and stud it, would I be wise to install a new style HPOP?

Thanks.

This is a late 04 motor. You’ve got the wavy rails, normal stand pipes and dummy plugs, instead of the hose off the stand pipe to the log rail, old style hpop.

In order to change to the 05+ pump, you’ll need to change the branch tubes, which if you e got the heads off isn’t an issue at all. Also, being as it’s got so many miles, I’d highly recommend doing lifters as well, in which case the branch tubes have to come out anyway.

The newer pump is definitely more reliable. It doesn’t have the check ball that falls out and causes low base oil pressure, it also doesn’t blow seals out of the shaft like the early ones.

For what it’s worth, when I built my motor this last time, I swapped to the 05 pump, but I had a set of branch tubes laying around, not sure if you can still get them from ford or not.

If you get a new pump, it will have the new stc fitting, which is about the only issue with them. I can probably count on one hand how many late pumps I’ve seen fail, and 3 were on our race truck, which I don’t think really counts…


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[DEEZUZ]

I've got a dieselsite hpop in a truck with probably 200k on it and the truck gets oil changed once a year.

I'd stick with the old style pump. Not worth the swap.

If you have no lpo the check ball had probably fallen out of the hpop. A guy like you would tap the port and insert a thread plug. Or the oil filter standpipe bypass is broken....

Or you lost a lifter/cam.

 

[DEEZUZ]

I call this the hybrid version of the 6.0. Wavy rails and alum pump. Imo it's the bester combination. When I was running gear head tunes on my 03 I had never ever had a truck fire as fast... And I've never had a alum hpop truck suffer from what I describe a heatsoak/quick restart issue that cast pumps do..

You have the cast iron cover but aluminum pump. Newer style is cast iron pump with aluminum cover BTW

 

[gwunter]

Thanks for the info. It's going to be a bit before I get deeper into this. I'll keep this thread updated.

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[Rickyhoe26]

I call this the hybrid version of the 6.0. Wavy rails and alum pump. Imo it's the bester combination. When I was running gear head tunes on my 03 I had never ever had a truck fire as fast... And I've never had a alum hpop truck suffer from what I describe a heatsoak/quick restart issue that cast pumps do..

You have the cast iron cover but aluminum pump. Newer style is cast iron pump with aluminum cover BTW

I know this post is older but I think you may have an answer I'm looking for. Doing studs and front cover upgrade on my early 03 6.0. Now it'll hav the 100mm w/p. I found a good 6.0 that must be a late 03 04 because it has the wavy oil rails but still has 18mm dowels and has cast hpop cover with the aluminum pump. I needed the heads so I installed them but when I went to install the log style rail I quickly realized I messed up. Rocker cover mounting bolts are different compared to wavy style. Can I get different stand pipes to run the wavy style with my early 03 hpop? Thanks for your time if you ever read this.

 

[DEEZUZ]

I know this post is older but I think you may have an answer I'm looking for. Doing studs and front cover upgrade on my early 03 6.0. Now it'll hav the 100mm w/p. I found a good 6.0 that must be a late 03 04 because it has the wavy oil rails but still has 18mm dowels and has cast hpop cover with the aluminum pump. I needed the heads so I installed them but when I went to install the log style rail I quickly realized I messed up. Rocker cover mounting bolts are different compared to wavy style. Can I get different stand pipes to run the wavy style with my early 03 hpop? Thanks for your time if you ever read this.

You'd have to pull the branch tube because the log style are threaded and the wavy are o ring.

 

[bismic]

There are 3 versions of the branch tubes:

03 for the round aluminum HPOP and log style rails.
05 (and up) for the cast iron HPOP and wavy style rails.
Late '04 for the round aluminum HPOP and the wavy style rails.

You would want the last one on the list.

Part number: 4C3Z-9J332-AA

Tube Assembly 4C3Z-9J332-AA | Auto Nation Ford White Bear Lake

4C3Z-9J332-AA - Tube Assembly

parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com

As an fyi ONLY, the heads with the 20mm dowels didn't come out came out until mid January of '06.

 

[DEEZUZ]

There are 3 versions of the branch tubes:

03 for the round aluminum HPOP and log style rails.
05 (and up) for the cast iron HPOP and wavy style rails.
Late '04 for the round aluminum HPOP and the wavy style rails.

You would want the last one on the list.

Part number: 4C3Z-9J332-AA

Tube Assembly 4C3Z-9J332-AA | Auto Nation Ford White Bear Lake

4C3Z-9J332-AA - Tube Assembly

parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com

As an fyi ONLY, the heads with the 20mm dowels didn't come out came out until mid January of '06.

Thank God you're here my man..

How many ****ing failures are you seeing on the stand pipes middle o ring nowadays? The o ring that goes into the pipe that sits inside the branch.

 

[DEEZUZ]

All the trucks have come from other shops and had amount 6 months of runtime since these parts were changed... I've been telling customers it may be due to install errors but I can't be 100% sure...

None of mine have come back as of recent. It's all been work from other shops.

 

[bismic]

Thank God you're here my man..

How many ****ing failures are you seeing on the stand pipes middle o ring nowadays? The o ring that goes into the pipe that sits inside the branch.

Thanks!

Lots of middle o-ring failures on standpipes. It is my opinion that Ford went to a different supplier - just like they have done on the oil coolers (China based for cost savings). I have the earliest version of Ford's upgraded standpipes on my 2006 (updated them in 2010 or so. They are solid! I won't ever get rid of them, I will just put new o-rings on them if/when they decide to leak.

Part of the issue w/ Ford's cheaper versions (and I wish I knew when they changed suppliers, but I don't) is the design, but also it seems that a cheaper o-ring material was used. Getting the Alliant o-ring set for standpipes is probably a decent bet for getting the proper material in these o-rings.

Now, all that said, DieselSite noticed the change/decline in Standpipe quality some time back, and they came out with their upgraded version. It did not fair very well, and I think it is because they did not take o-ring material and specifications seriously enough in their first try. They now have a second version and for that version it specifically touts the proper material and durometer hardness. I wouldn't have an issue with trying those, but I have not seen them "pass the test of time" quite yet.

O-ring and gasket material is one of the first things that is "skimped on" when aftermarket companies start producing replacement parts "for cheap". Definitely China parts will have cheap "soft goods" unless they are held to a contract to include the better materials (and even then someone had better be periodically auditing and inspecting them)! JMHO

Then you see a LOT of Dorman junk installed - just a matter of time with their parts!

2004.5-2010 Ford 6.0L DIESELSITE Stand Pipe and Dummy Plug Kit

2004.5-2010 Ford 6.0L Upgraded Stand Pipe Kit

www.dieselsite.com

I guess the last thing to add, is that I have gone to using a "silicone oil" for o-rings from Parker instead of oil for pre-lubing the standpipe o-rings. Called Parker Super o-Lube. It is thicker and IMO does a better job in protecting the o-rings on installation. Some people say that Silicone grease will work also.

https://ph.parker.com/us/en/product-list/high-viscosity-silicone-lubricant-general-purpose-and-high-pressure-pneumatic-translucent-super-o-lube

 

[6.0 Tech]

I’ve got a theory this has to do with just the kits. Seems I’ve had better luck installing individual stand pipes and dummy tubes rather than the kit. Granted the kit is like 1/3-1/2 the price of doing them individually, but for the lack of headache someone can eat the cost. Hell I had the top/middle oring blow out on my truck after about 10k, warrantied the kit and threw them all in, and one of the stand pipes made it about 7 miles before it had an issue. Granted it had about a 3/4in vertical crack in the lower section, that was a bitch to find, but I then threw in individual parts and haven’t had any issues.


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