Air Dog 2 Questions w/ or w/o Regulated Return

Shustack

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Whats up, I did a bunch of research on this before i posted my questions up head is starting to spin from all the threads i read. I came across a good deal on a air dog 2 df-165. I seen some threads about up grading the wiring as i will. I seen getting a sump will be ideal to help the pump run easier as well(still gotta get one) But my question is with the regulated return, some ppl say just run a y fitting up to the back of the heads, run a crossover, some run a regulated return with a aftermarket pump just set the pump at 58-60psi and the regulated return at 55-57psi. But what is the best route to go? lots of opnions on it im just not sure whats going to be best for me.

Mods
upgrading to barters stage 2
looking at 155/30's or 175/75's
got all the deletes and studs in the box ready to be put on.
5'' exhaust
S&B
looking at intake manifolds never made a decision yet.

Biggest issue is making sure i have plenty of enough fuel with out a doubt. I always over do it but rather be safe than sorry. Im waiting to do it all in one shot since i need to replace my factory clutch it will make life easier for me.

any info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Joe
 

Strictly Diesel

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If that was my truck, I would turn the pressure DOWN on the ADII and let it supply fuel to the stock pump...then let the stock pump make the system pressure. Much better chance of the ADII living and the main system pump doesn't have a crappy regulator in it to compete with the regulator on the engine.

The stock pump is PLENTY for either of the injectors you mentioned.

As for the regulated return, of course I'm partial to ours. We address all of the issues in the stock system to improve flow and pressure management, and do it with the highest quality components on the market.

With the setup above, you would have no problem making and maintaining 60-65psi of pressure all day, every day.
 

bootcamp

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I run a ADII with a RR kit, I bottomed out the regulator on the pump and set the return regulator at 60 psi and also upgraded the wiring. So far this pump has lasted the longest out of all of them...
That's also some good advice from Strictly Diesel.
 
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I did what strictly was describing . I used an ad1 -150 Gph feeding my stock pump then to a strictly rr kit . Never ever had one lick of issue maintaining 60 psi of pressure and I was running 190/100s on Idp xtreme x . So keep that in mind.
 

Shustack

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Do you guys think it was a bad move picking up the ad? I know it will be a lot better filtration but could have just spent the money on a regulated return and been good? Then I wouldn't need a sump as well with supporting those mods. It's not my daily driver but if need be I don't wanna worry about any issues.
 

loboost

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Do you guys think it was a bad move picking up the ad? I know it will be a lot better filtration but could have just spent the money on a regulated return and been good? Then I wouldn't need a sump as well with supporting those mods. It's not my daily driver but if need be I don't wanna worry about any issues.

A sump never hurts...even on stock parts.

Use the ad to feed the hfcm, do a reg return...and call it a day

sent while driving recklessly
 

FaSSt9602

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Dennis,

If you turn the pressure down on the AD2, is there going to be enough volume supplied? I thought if you turn down the pressure that it would be returning more fuel to the tank, meaning less volume, and potentially a lot less...

If that was my truck, I would turn the pressure DOWN on the ADII and let it supply fuel to the stock pump...then let the stock pump make the system pressure. Much better chance of the ADII living and the main system pump doesn't have a crappy regulator in it to compete with the regulator on the engine.

The stock pump is PLENTY for either of the injectors you mentioned.

As for the regulated return, of course I'm partial to ours. We address all of the issues in the stock system to improve flow and pressure management, and do it with the highest quality components on the market.

With the setup above, you would have no problem making and maintaining 60-65psi of pressure all day, every day.
 

Strictly Diesel

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You have to remember how the regulator in one of those pumps is "supposed to" work (I say that because sometimes the adjustable regulator in the ADII has problems with severely leaking O-rings which throws "supposed to" out the window).

These regulators don't control volume, they simply control pressure when enough volume and sufficient restriction in the main flow line are available. If the pump moves more fuel (GPH) through the main outlet (to the high pressure pump or directly to the engine...depending on the setup) than the next component can move, there will be a pressure side restriction. This is where the pressure comes from. If the volume (GPH) from the pump is high enough, the pressure will exceed the point at which the internal regulator (in the pump) opens. This happens to allow fuel to escape the circuit (reduce the GPH going forward) and thus reduce the pressure. If there is not enough fuel volume (GPH) to make enough pressure to open the regulator, the regulator will remain closed and do absolutely nothing.

So, to answer your question... If you turn the pressure down on the ADII, the regulator (if working properly) will relieve pressure from the fuel supply stream leaving the pump IF AND ONLY IF the pressure in that line exceeds the regulator set-point. In order for that to happen, the ADII will have to move enough volume of fuel (GPH) to exceed the volume of fuel the stock pump (in this case) is moving, and the excess volume moved by the ADII will need to be high enough to build enough pressure to open the regulator. If the volume isn't there, the regulator should never open.

Numerical examples (illustration only):

Stock Pump Flows 40gph
ADII Pump Flows 40gph
In this case, the ADII should supply sufficient fuel volume to keep up with the stock pump, but the pressure at the inlet of the stock pump will be 0psi. The ADII regulator should remain closed because there is no reason for it to open.

Stock Pump Flows 40gph
ADII Pump Flows 80gph
In this case, the ADII moves 2x the volume of fuel that the stock pump can. There WILL be pressure at the inlet of the stock pump because the volume being supplied by the ADII is greater than the volume the stock pump is transferring from the inlet to the outlet. In this case, depending on the adjustment of the ADII regulator, there should be fuel being bled off by the ADII regulator.

Does that make sense?
 

FaSSt9602

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Kinda, but all things being equal, wouldn't lowering the pressure on the AD2 result in more fuel heading back to the tank? Wouldn't the GPM at 20psi be way less than at 60psi with the way the AD2 regulator works since it is returning all that "excess" fuel back to the tank?
 

mind if I smoke

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Bump for some info. I have an ADII with a RR kit. I thought it would be best to set the AD up with a higher psi(For example 70psi) and then have the RR set to the lower psi(like 60psi).
 

Strictly Diesel

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Kinda, but all things being equal, wouldn't lowering the pressure on the AD2 result in more fuel heading back to the tank? Wouldn't the GPM at 20psi be way less than at 60psi with the way the AD2 regulator works since it is returning all that "excess" fuel back to the tank?
As a general rule, as pressure goes down, flow goes UP. So, to answer your question...NO.

NO MATTER WHAT THE REGULATOR IS SET AT...the ADII pump is attempting to move the maximum flow through the outlet to the motor UNTIL the point that the pressure set-point is reached. ONLY when the pressure in the line between the ADII and whatever is after it reaches that set-point will the regulator open.

The ONLY way the pressure regulator hurts flow is if it is STUCK OPEN, has damaged o-rings or is otherwise not working properly! If it is stuck open or O-rings are leaking, it creates a constant drain on the system that reduces the volume of fuel that is available to go forward to the engine. Otherwise, the regulator will only return the amount of fuel to the tank that is required to keep the pressure on the pump outlet at the set-point. If the volume of fuel being consumed by the rest of the system forward of the ADII goes up, the regulator will close to keep the pressure up, if the volume being consumed suddenly drops, the regulator will open to keep the pressure down. Either way, the pump is running at 100% duty cycle and attempting to push 100% of the flow capability TO THE ENGINE.

Keep in mind that the only way to make pressure is for the ADII to move more VOLUME of fuel than the next component after it (the stock pump in this case). Since PRESSURE is what is required to open the regulator (if working properly), the only way the regulator will return fuel to the tank is if the ADII is moving more volume of fuel than the stock pump.

I will say this...the ADII is the only pump on the market that can skirt the normal rules that apply here. The FASS pumps do not have any kind of internal passage for fuel, the fuel either goes to the engine or gets returned to the tank. In the case of the ADII, their "demand flow" regulator allows INTERNAL RECIRCULATION of fuel, which is why any failure of the O-rings on their regulator can result in a loss of pressure (fuel flows from pressure to suction side of pump, reducing the amount of fuel sent to the engine and the amount drawn from the tank), even though the pump may not be returning more fuel to the tank. I really dislike the fact that the ADII can and does allow an internal flow loop because this can be hard for some people to diagnose and it causes a LOT of phone calls to those of us making fuel systems because the first part people want to blame is our fuel pressure regulator. This is just one of the reasons I will NOT sell an ADII to any 7.3L or 6.0L customer...EVER!

Bump for some info. I have an ADII with a RR kit. I thought it would be best to set the AD up with a higher psi(For example 70psi) and then have the RR set to the lower psi(like 60psi).
If you are running the ADII as the ONLY pump in the system, you are correct. The ADII needs to be set to a pressure HIGHER than what you want at the engine, so that the regulator on the engine can reduce the pressure and so that you have enough pressure overhead to keep the pressure up as demand from the injectors increases.

The discussion above is different because I recommended keeping the stock fuel pump and using the ADII as a low pressure lift pump and filter setup, which should result is a longer living ADII.
 

onebadcoastie

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Just going to throw this out there, 60-65 psi is NOT necessarily "nominal" for the trucks operation. You'll need to figure out where your truck operates the best. Some guys including myself have ours set to 52-55 psi. I don't have dyno data for my rig to support that but a few folks have dyno'd theirs and found the mid to low 50's provided the best power (in terms of hp numbers) in that range. Higher pressure doesn't necessarily equate to better performance.
 

Strictly Diesel

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No argument from me. These are not gas injectors, which is why we don't bother with using the boost reference port on the regulators. We stick with 60-65psi because that's what most of the injector builders want to protect the internals (lube and cushion).


Fat fingered on my iPad...not responsible for typos!
 

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