ARP studs stretching?

TBagAMouseTrap · Jul 27, 2014

Ive had my truck for about 10k miles so far. Before I ever drove it I installed arp studs with factory gaskets and machined heads, egr delete, new oem oil cooler, rr fuel with low pressure pump feeding stock. Since then I've installed a ported intake, 68mm pmax, 190/100 injectors and rebuilt the trans with suncoast kit. I've recently started to push coolant. Seen on here that the arp/stock gasket set up was good for 1000hp. I made 565hp on the dyno and ran a 13.2 at the track so I'm nowhere close to that. I read on another forum that the arps are only good to about 500hp and then they stretch, and that warren used brand new heads, oem gaskets, and new studs and after his first pull was pushing coolant. Do I need to move to the 625s, h11, or h13? I torqued the studs to the instructed 210ft/lbs. I remember the first set of studs I installed had a final torque of 245 as per arp. Should I just throw new gaskets in and torque to 245?

Luke@MillerPerformance · Jul 27, 2014

I'm running almost the same setup as you on stock head bolts. I made 527 on tunes for a stock turbo with my 68mm. What's your oil temp when you push it hard? I would lean towards cracked heads.

TBagAMouseTrap · Jul 27, 2014

Appreciate the input. Not sure oil temp, I will check tomorrow at work. Heads were off an 07 with 43k that had no signs of blown gaskets, he also wanted to gets studs before he drove it.

ghohouston · Jul 27, 2014

i doubt its the studs stretching. 6.0 and 6.4 heads crack like crazy.

bigrpowr · Jul 27, 2014

If you redo them , use the extreme h-13 , best bang for the buck .

Bigred91 · Jul 28, 2014

With the heads machined properly and everything installed right the arps will easily hold up to 1000hp. I don't see any benefits from the "better" studs. They're all the same thing just people trying to make more money off people. I would say the heads are cracked. Same thing is happening to mine now, just had studs done and now the heads are cracked cause I'm running much hotter tuning and really beating on it. Just my .02 though

sootie · Jul 28, 2014

did you have the used heads machined prior to install? my best bet is that they arent flat...

lx_2nv · Jul 28, 2014

^Thats what I am thinking^

Mdub707 · Jul 28, 2014

Just because gaskets blow, doesn't mean it's the studs fault. A stud is a pretty simple device, yet so many people seem confused about their function.

First, they all STRETCH. That's how they work. The stretch and that tension put into the stud is what holds everything together.

The higher your tensile strength the less stretch you need to obtain a desired clamping force. The higher your tensile strength, the more resistance to stretch you get as well (same meaning, just worded different) which also means they will be less likely to stretch under extreme stress (high temps, high cylinder pressures etc).

For most, the standard ARP's are just fine, but there are a lot of factors that go into the job itself as well.

The OP's first post says he installed machined heads.

A stud is a stud, sure... but they are definitely different. Just need to look at what you're doing, what you plan to do and assess your risk. An extreme stud will resist stretch under really high stress situations vs. the standard ARP. However for those who seem to enjoy over-torquing their studs for some reason, the extremes will be more brittle and likely snap easier. Less room for error there.

KCTurbos · Jul 28, 2014

Standard ARPs and OEM gaskets are not a good long term 1000hp solution. I am not sure how or where that came from, but it gets regurgitated so much on the forums that a lot of guys still believe it. A few people have managed to make big power short term... but anyone I know pushing big HP on a 6.0 with standard studs and OEM gaskets only last a short time before they start leaking. It might take a year to start puking and noticing.

It seems good machine work and Orings from a reputable shops helps them last longer

scparrish · Jul 28, 2014

I completely agree that setup is not a good long term setup for 1000hp. I don't make 1000hp and my gaskets are completely shot. I believe o ringed heads could be a solid solution, and I will be using extreme studs for my coming up stud job.

Strictly Diesel · Jul 28, 2014

No matter what stud and gasket you use, you have not changed the fact that there are only 4 fasteners per cylinder. The 6.0L fasteners are spaced farther apart than they are in any other modern diesel (which all have 6 fasteners per cylinder). The 2 CLOSEST (to each other) fasteners in a 6.0L are 4" apart, the 2 FARTHEST (from each other) in a 7.3L are 3" apart...THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Better fasteners and newer gaskets and machining all help, but in the end you have not re-engineered the engine and have not fixed the real problem...so head gaskets failures, albeit hopefully fewer and farther in between, are still going to be a real problem.

Whatever stud you use, make sure you torque it to the correct spec (per the manufacturer), using the correct lube (per the stud manufacturer). Adding additional torque "because the internet says so" is a good way to yield the fastener and make it useless. In the case of a harder fastener, it's a good way to break it. You will want to make sure that the heads are milled and perfectly flat. While the machine shop has them, getting them pressure and vacuum checked is a great idea. Having the heads o-ringed is another way to help the combustion chamber seal, and a good idea if you know you will be pushing the engine hard.

TBagAMouseTrap · Jul 28, 2014

The heads were machined flat prior to installation. I've done over 100 head gasket jobs and only 3 ever leaked. 2 were customer supplied victor reinz gaskets and 1 was mine. I used the same machine shop for all the jobs. When I first started to instal arps the torque sequence was something like 85, 190, 245. Now they are shipped with instructions to torque 70, 140, 210 which is what I followed. I was just curious because of what I read on other forums and so far my 6.0 is the most built up that I have installed studs on. Thanks for the input guys!

Strictly Diesel · Jul 28, 2014

Could be deck surface problems on the block too.

Luke@MillerPerformance · Jul 29, 2014

TBagAMouseTrap said:
The heads were machined flat prior to installation. I've done over 100 head gasket jobs and only 3 ever leaked. 2 were customer supplied victor reinz gaskets and 1 was mine. I used the same machine shop for all the jobs. When I first started to instal arps the torque sequence was something like 85, 190, 245. Now they are shipped with instructions to torque 70, 140, 210 which is what I followed. I was just curious because of what I read on other forums and so far my 6.0 is the most built up that I have installed studs on. Thanks for the input guys!

On higher HP trucks one thing that seems to help is having your tuner adjust the fan clutch on temps for both oil and coolant to 210. Without doing that I was having trucks hit 220-230 temps on 100+ days here when pulling grades. Keeping a 6.0 cool really drops the chance of cracked heads.

Mdub707 · Jul 30, 2014

mpdtune said:
On higher HP trucks one thing that seems to help is having your tuner adjust the fan clutch on temps for both oil and coolant to 210. Without doing that I was having trucks hit 220-230 temps on 100+ days here when pulling grades. Keeping a 6.0 cool really drops the chance of cracked heads.

To add to this, taking it very easy on the "go pedal" until everything is at full operating temp helps tremendously as well.

04 f350 · Jul 30, 2014

I think that would go for just about any vehicle in general..I see guys in duramaxs all the time jump into their truck and immediately go down the road wide open lol I just shake my head...

bigrpowr · Jul 30, 2014

Bigred91 said:
With the heads machined properly and everything installed right the arps will easily hold up to 1000hp. I don't see any benefits from the "better" studs. They're all the same thing just people trying to make more money off people. I would say the heads are cracked. Same thing is happening to mine now, just had studs done and now the heads are cracked cause I'm running much hotter tuning and really beating on it. Just my .02 though

but you are ignorant.

Bigred91 · Jul 30, 2014

bigrpowr said:
but you are ignorant.

And how is that? Do you have to go to every post I make and say something negative? I have no idea who you are and yet this is like the third time you have said something to me because you don't like something? If I'm so wrong and ignorant then why don't you educate me in why I'm ignorant? You don't have to be a douche. That will get you nowhere in life and makes you ignorant.