Larger stock type turbos and towing?

Ipkyss · Sep 13, 2014

Starting to think about changing my truck a little. Main use of the truck is towing a 36ft enclosed gooseneck trailer at 19klbs. So my main concern is reliability. I have had the Elite 71 on there for the last 25k miles issue free.

Would like to stay stock fuel for a little longer. Thinking about the RCD 75/59 set up. I have the Elite wastegate set up for my truck, but it is currently removed as I did not need it. It can go back on if needed.

Anyone have any clue of power with the 75/59 and stock fuel? I have not found any dyno sheets yet. I plan to go with bigger nozzles when I finally decide what I want to do for the HPFP. I was really hoping for a modified single HPFP that was reliable by now but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

One of my main concerns is if these type of turbos will be reliable at 40lbs of boost pulling constant hills. Are they still Modified stock turbos or do that have bigger bearings and shafts now?

Truck is not a race truck. Its my tow rig that with see some racing from time to time, maybe a few truck pulls, and some fun driving.

B585Ford · Sep 13, 2014

Ipkyss said:
Starting to think about changing my truck a little. Main use of the truck is towing a 36ft enclosed gooseneck trailer at 19klbs. So my main concern is reliability. I have had the Elite 71 on there for the last 25k miles issue free.

Would like to stay stock fuel for a little longer. Thinking about the RCD 75/59 set up. I have the Elite wastegate set up for my truck, but it is currently removed as I did not need it. It can go back on if needed.

Anyone have any clue of power with the 75/59 and stock fuel? I have not found any dyno sheets yet. I plan to go with bigger nozzles when I finally decide what I want to do for the HPFP. I was really hoping for a modified single HPFP that was reliable by now but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

One of my main concerns is if these type of turbos will be reliable at 40lbs of boost pulling constant hills. Are they still Modified stock turbos or do that have bigger bearings and shafts now?

Truck is not a race truck. Its my tow rig that with see some racing from time to time, maybe a few truck pulls, and some fun driving.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has dynoed on an accurate dyno with stock fuel the 75/59 or the 76/59. Chris runs a F450 with 75/59 is very happy with it, but he only has a few thousand miles on it and obviously the gearing is a good bit different that you. Since you tow a good bit of weight, spool up is important. I really like my 15% nozzles, 76/stock VGT because spool up is so good. When I am first accelerating, the EGTs get hotter quicker, but when cruising, they seem to be a little lower than my old stock fuel and 71. I am guessing if I go to a 59, the initial EGT rise won't be as much. With all of that said, my old 71 did great towing heavy and was very reliable (never an issue). IIRC I had about 25k miles and at least half were grossing 24k-32k. I haven't seen many failures on the drop ins from RCD or Elite so I assume the 75/59 will hold up pretty well. Not sure about the shaft size. As you probably have seen already, the 75 does run a different turbine. According to Morgan, the turbine helps to keep EBP down. I have never seen any data on EBP with the 75/59 on stock fuel.

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Sep 13, 2014

On stock fuel with no plans of upgrading I doubt you will see a powerful with the 75/59 vs the 72/59. The 72/59 is a solid setup with added fuel can be 725+ there has been at least three different trucks with 75/59's dyno over 800. Another customer of mine has repeatable 760-780 rwhp by track times running the 75/59 with 30% and dual fuelers.

We keep them all on the shelf. Lmk if you need anything.

Erikclaw · Sep 13, 2014

There is a guy, for get his handle. Canadian, Shane has worked with him and I think you too Morgan. Forcefed. He is running the 75/59 and doesn't like it for towing, feels the 75 is more of a top end power turbo. Not putting words in his mouth but think that is his feelings.

forcefed6.4ford · Sep 14, 2014

To clarify seeing as there seems to be some misunderstanding. I haven't even had a chance to tow heavy with it yet. Trailer was already spotted by the time I got the truck back together. I am happy with the 75/59. It pulls hard and my gearing helps a lot to get it to light. That being said. This turbo loves to be pushed. The more I give it the beans the cooler it runs to a point. I can not break 1350-1400 deg flat to the floor rolling into it hard at 60mph. But under moderate load before the 75 gets wound right up (right where you would be towing on level ground or mild hills) there MIGHT not be enough drive to keep things cool. This is a direct result of the larger turbine in the 75 in my opinion. It carries less boost when your not into the fuel. For a street truck this is a fantastic set up but for heavy towing I would recommend the 72. I've pulled 8000lbs on gravel at 50mph and it was fine. Just made sure I kept the rpms up (it likes 2000rpm and magic happens at 2500rpm. Things go all tingly and it puts a smile on your face) when going up hills. Can't say anything about 17k or more.

Today while driving at 70mph and better. Egts never broke 825 pulling steep hills. 625-650 on level ground. Ebp 23psi absolute. Boost 19-22psi absolet. 60-80 easy throttle 800-825. Did a full rail pressure test 60-90. Did not break 1250 and got to 90 faster then you can say "sh1t this could be an expensive ticket".

Ipkyss · Sep 14, 2014

750-800whp was what I was hoping to shoot for. Thats why I was thinking the 59/75. This winter I am swapping to 4.30 gears to get my highway rpm around 2150-2200. That should help a lot.

By what your saying, With the larger turbine of the 75, would the elite 76 actually be better for towing? I did not think there would be any issue spooling the 75 while towing. Kind of surprised by that.

For reference. With the 71 and Spartan 210 tune. Flat ground towing is right around 20psi boost. I was thinking with the 59/75 I could probably drop to the 175 tune or so for towing.

Next question would be is there enough of a difference between the 71 and 72 to justify the swap when there is nothing currently wrong?

I have never owned a truck this long before. I feel like I need to make some changes before I get too bored and buy a new truck.

forcefed6.4ford · Sep 14, 2014

I just haven't had a chance to try heavy yet. 4.30's will make a massive difference to how your turbos respond. Keep in mind I have more rolling resistance and I weigh damn near 10,000lbs and am at 3,000 feet. Who knows. I could be way off base. It may respond extremely well to the constant load of a heavy trailer. May need to just do more trans tuning to keep the shift points higher.

The atmo wakes up big time as the vanes open. There are not a lot (I think I'm the only one actually) running this set up on essentially a stock fuel. I'm sure there is way more to be done if I could have Matt for a day or two.

B585Ford · Sep 14, 2014

Towing 15.2k lbs is my heaviest with the new setup and there have been a few others around 10-12k, but nothing real heavy. So far, with the weight I have towed, I can say there is an appreciable difference from the 71. Spool up is definitely quicker (again the nozzles probably have a lot to do with that) and it definitely gets the load moving quicker, has the power to hold the grades better, and runs slightly cooler EGTs when cruising. For reference, I am far from optimal with my towing setup....3.73s with 35s. FYI I did add a gate also.

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Sep 14, 2014

What you guys have to understand is that spool up is 90% from the vgt. If you got from a stock 52mm cast to a 59 billet them you will experience more lag. It's just a fact of life. Same will happen with the 75,76 and 72. The bigger 75 reacts better to 30% nozzles and a bigger pump. On stock fuel your not going to gain much past a 72. But yes the 72 will be an improvement over the 71 you have. Much better wheel technology out there now.

I wouldn't be worried about towing with any of the stock appearing chargers available. They will all tow fine without melting your engine.

04hdfatboy · Sep 15, 2014

What about the barder 73 for towing heavy?

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Sep 15, 2014

All, stock appearing turbos will tow anything you want with no issues. You can tow with a single, none of the modded stock turbos will have issues.

Like I said earlier. The vgt turbo is what spools the truck. Not the atmo. The big one is spooled by the time the vgt is at full song. If you want better spool, keep your stock vgt on there. Anytime you go larger on any turbo spool will be affected. There is no way around it.

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Sep 15, 2014

One of my customers towed over 10k lb camper to Schieds with 30%'s a modded pump, 75/59 drove 70-80 mph on the highway and then won the dyno both days at 800+ and then towed it home on Sunday.

Hell this year we took the shop truck with 100% dual pumps, 63/84 non vgt compounds and towed a 13k lb fifth wheel to schieds and back and won the dyno. Cruised at 800 deg at 70mph.

It takes a good tow tune and a person driving that isn't an idiot you could tow whatever you want with just about anything.

08Monster · Sep 15, 2014

Just a side not here, sorry to derail, but doesn't anyone have a good video of the sound a 75/59 makes under full acceleration or anything for that matter?

B585Ford · Sep 15, 2014

08Monster said:
Just a side not here, sorry to derail, but doesn't anyone have a good video of the sound a 75/59 makes under full acceleration or anything for that matter?

I believe Chris posted one before....it sounds really good!!!

Breaking Habits · Sep 15, 2014

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto said:
All, stock appearing turbos will tow anything you want with no issues. You can tow with a single, none of the modded stock turbos will have issues.

Like I said earlier. The vgt turbo is what spools the truck. Not the atmo. The big one is spooled by the time the vgt is at full song. If you want better spool, keep your stock vgt on there. Anytime you go larger on any turbo spool will be affected. There is no way around it.

I hooked a leaf blower to the front of my 80mm single and it spooled better than stock?