My 86 Fummins Project

Matt_P · Oct 21, 2012

Well as many know I put this build on hold since I did the swap in my king ranch kind of out of nowhere and used all the donor parts I had for the 86 for the king ranch.

Well now that the king ranch is up and running, its time to get back to this one!

Big thanks to Matt Kelly, I got an industrial 12v engine for this truck now. Its in pretty rough shape, been sitting a while with the head off so it will need a full rebuild like my 24v did, but that was expected.

Luckily Im in my custom engine building class right now where Im in a shop with every single top of the line machining tool I need to rebuild this engine and do all the machining. We even have a nice sunnen crank balancer as well.

So starting tomorrow Ill tear down the bottom end and the head. Shot blast/hot tank and magnaflux everything that needs it and go from there. The cylinder walls have some good rust in them so im expecting to have to go .020 over.

The plans with the engine are:

Bore .020 over
Check main and rod journals and hone as necessary
Magnaflux head, Im assuming it will need new guides and possibly a couple new valves unless I can clean them up
Deck the block
Deck head
Balance the crank, rods, pistons, etc so it will have a fully balanced bottom end
Do complete rebuild on engine.

I know it will need new injectors as well and the engine had no turbo, Im thinking I may just go with a set of 5x.012 and an HE351 since I wont have funds to do a ton of performance on this thing and be able to get the truck done for a while.

The p-pump I have with it is most likely just good as a core, but Ill probably take it and the injectors to columbus diesel supply to have checked out.

When I was down at Matt's I also had him order me a set of ARP 12mm head studs and 60lb valve springs so those will be going in as well.

Then I need to get an alternator, new water pump, one more rocker arm setup cause it was missing and other little odds and ends.

I want to try to have this be a fresh built long block ready to drop in the truck in three weeks time. Thats the goal.

Then it will sit all wrapped up til its ready to go into the truck, but since I can do all the machine work myself for free I figure now is the time to take advantage.

Then I want to move on to getting the rest of the truck ready for the engine this winter

For a trans Im either going to run an NV4500 or ZF-5, I already have one with an auto so might as well go manual for this one.

Here is the engine:

Wes Lewis · Oct 21, 2012

I was told its not a good idea to shot blast the blocks... the shot gets into the oil galleys and sticks. just a heads up

looks good tho, if ya need any wiring or whatever I got an 87 parts truck thats not doin anything

Matt_P · Oct 21, 2012

Wes Lewis said:
I was told its not a good idea to shot blast the blocks... the shot gets into the oil galleys and sticks. just a heads up

looks good tho, if ya need any wiring or whatever I got an 87 parts truck thats not doin anything

Yeah I wont be blasing the block, just the head. I know that shot is a pain in the ass to get out of the galleys, we have spent a good 5 hours hot tanking and blowing out one guys block to get all the shot out. I dont want to risk trashing my bearings with leftover shot thats in the galleys. The head though I know wont be hard to get it all cleaned out.

The block I just plan to hot tank a couple times and then throw it in the oven if necessary.

And thanks Wes, I just might take you up on needing some parts from that 87! Is it a 250?

Hotrodtractor · Oct 22, 2012

About fricken time.

Wes Lewis · Oct 22, 2012

Matt_P said:
Yeah I wont be blasing the block, just the head. I know that shot is a pain in the ass to get out of the galleys, we have spent a good 5 hours hot tanking and blowing out one guys block to get all the shot out. I dont want to risk trashing my bearings with leftover shot thats in the galleys. The head though I know wont be hard to get it all cleaned out.

The block I just plan to hot tank a couple times and then throw it in the oven if necessary.

And thanks Wes, I just might take you up on needing some parts from that 87! Is it a 250?

Ok good, I had a block I was gonna blast and was told not too, heads arnt bad at all to clean! Look real nice when their done.

No it's a 150. I-6 5spd, I have a few mid 90s f-150 also depending on what ya need. None of the body panels are any good tho

JMart · Oct 22, 2012

glad to see you rolling on this again Matt

Matt_P · Oct 22, 2012

Wes Lewis said:
Ok good, I had a block I was gonna blast and was told not too, heads arnt bad at all to clean! Look real nice when their done.

No it's a 150. I-6 5spd, I have a few mid 90s f-150 also depending on what ya need. None of the body panels are any good tho

Yeah it does make it look real nice, I figured the head wouldnt be too bad either. Luckily my body panels are all good but Im sure Ill end up needing something

Hotrodtractor said:
About fricken time.

your tellin me

JMart said:
glad to see you rolling on this again Matt

Thanks! Im glad to be back on it again.

Unfortunately I only got an hour to work on it today in class, so I got it all unloaded and on the stand to start tearing down. Unfortunately its locked up real tight so I gotta get it to turn over so I can get the cam out.

I think I might need a new cam, a couple lobes are pretty rusty. The bottom end isnt too terrible. I got #6 rod and piston out.

Its definitely gonna have to be bored though, hopefully can get it torn down the rest of the way tomorrow

Hotrodtractor · Oct 22, 2012

Matt_P said:
Unfortunately I only got an hour to work on it today in class, so I got it all unloaded and on the stand to start tearing down. Unfortunately its locked up real tight so I gotta get it to turn over so I can get the cam out.

One part ATF fluid, one part laquer thinner - pour that into the bores that are stuck - that gets the atf fluid into to do its work and the laquer thinner evaporates quickly leaving just the oil. Let it soak overnight.

Ideally I do that before the head needs to come off - then I can use a custom made grease fitting that you can pump grease into the cylinder with the valves close and break it free hydraulically - a hand held grease gun is capable of generating 3kpsi of pressure. I've done that MANY times with antique engines. It has to be pretty screwed up if I can't have it broke free (and often running - but needing rebuilt) within 24 hours.

TurboM700 · Oct 22, 2012

Hotrodtractor said:
One part ATF fluid, one part laquer thinner - pour that into the bores that are stuck - that gets the atf fluid into to do its work and the laquer thinner evaporates quickly leaving just the oil. Let it soak overnight.

Ideally I do that before the head needs to come off - then I can use a custom made grease fitting that you can pump grease into the cylinder with the valves close and break it free hydraulically - a hand held grease gun is capable of generating 3kpsi of pressure. I've done that MANY times with antique engines. It has to be pretty screwed up if I can't have it broke free (and often running - but needing rebuilt) within 24 hours.

Thats a good idea. How big of a PITA is it to get all the grease back out to get them at-least running.

Hotrodtractor · Oct 22, 2012

TurboM700 said:
Thats a good idea. How big of a PITA is it to get all the grease back out to get them at-least running.

Be prepared to make a mess. LOL Beyond that - its not bad to get enough of it out to get it to fire.

In 2005 I bought a 1934 John Deere D that was locked up - I took it home - took off the valve cover, the rocker arms - removed the plugs and filled both cylinders up with the mixture - put the plugs back in and walked away for the night. The next day - I went out there - took both plugs out - hooked the grease gun up and started pumping until the first cylinder was at bottom dead center - repeated with the second cylinder (that was a LOT of grease! LOL) - once I did that - took a 10Kpsi ratchet strap and went around the flywheel and attached it to the front axle and started ratcheting - it didn't take long before I could move it by hand although it was tough - then I belted the D to a 730 with a cross belt and let the 730 bark.... after 30 minutes of that - it was easy to spin - rebuilt the carb - rebuilt the mag - and that night I had it running well enough that I decided it needed to get stripped and restored. That is one of the MANY engines that I have done that with - but probably one of the more impressive ones..... I'll have to see if I have pics of it somewhere.... I think I even have pics of this process.....

Jarrod B · Oct 22, 2012

You still have the 03 fummins Matt?

Matt_P · Oct 22, 2012

Hotrodtractor said:
One part ATF fluid, one part laquer thinner - pour that into the bores that are stuck - that gets the atf fluid into to do its work and the laquer thinner evaporates quickly leaving just the oil. Let it soak overnight.

Ideally I do that before the head needs to come off - then I can use a custom made grease fitting that you can pump grease into the cylinder with the valves close and break it free hydraulically - a hand held grease gun is capable of generating 3kpsi of pressure. I've done that MANY times with antique engines. It has to be pretty screwed up if I can't have it broke free (and often running - but needing rebuilt) within 24 hours.

Sweet thanks Jason! Ill pick that stuff up tomorrow then to use, I know that stuff you had at the shop worked great for getting my 24v unlocked. Unfortunately the head was already off the engine when I picked it up, which is most likely why its in this state LOL but oh well.

Jarrod B said:
You still have the 03 fummins Matt?

Yep I sure do, I drive it every day, got about 3200 miles on it now.

Hotrodtractor · Oct 22, 2012

Matt_P said:
Sweet thanks Jason! Ill pick that stuff up tomorrow then to use, I know that stuff you had at the shop worked great for getting my 24v unlocked. Unfortunately the head was already off the engine when I picked it up, which is most likely why its in this state LOL but oh well.

I don't remember which concoction we used on that one.... LOL... I have so many that I have used with varying luck... it was probably some diesel/mineral spirits/atf/used motor oil junk that I just kind of have around for things like that. LOL

Matt_P · Oct 22, 2012

Hotrodtractor said:
I don't remember which concoction we used on that one.... LOL... I have so many that I have used with varying luck... it was probably some diesel/mineral spirits/atf/used motor oil junk that I just kind of have around for things like that. LOL

LOL yeah it was one of your special mixtures, I think it was the one in the barrel next to the big shop door, just one of the many things you have to solve problems like that lOL

Matt_P · Oct 23, 2012

Well this engine definitely has not wanted to give me any breaks! Literally everything that could be seized in this engine is seized! I spent 5 hours of class today trying to tear everything down, to start with:

Getting the injectors out of the head proved to be fun, I bent the **** out of 3 of them trying to get them out so that was fun. After getting the valve springs out, every single exhaust valve was seized in the head. That just took a little persuasion with a hammer and brass chisel. Inside the ports of the valves was a collection of some kind of wood nut, rust and other furry soft things for animals to make homes with LOL under the intake was full of that too.

So far I let the head soak in the hot tank for about 45 minutes after that, and tomorrow it will get shot blasted.

Now for the engine:

Lets see, the two cylinders with rust have the walls so screwed up that those pistons are VERY seized in there. Since I couldnt get the rod bolts out of two of the rods due to their position that made it hard to turn over the engine to get the bolts out of the thrust plate for the cam and in turn I couldnt get the front cover off, so I had no way to get the crank out anyways.

So with the persuasion of a torch the thrust plate bolts heads went bye bye, but of course the cam was seized in the bores. That consisted of removing the plug on the back of the block and beating the cam out of the block with a BFH and brass punch. The cam has a couple rusted lobes so thatll need replaced. Gonna need new tappets too cuase those dont look so hot either.

Then I got the front cover off, used the hoist to lift the crank out some so I could get to those rod bolts and out came the crank. I ran out of time then so tomorrow will be getting those seized rods and pistons out.

All I have to show for this today is a decently swollen left hand thanks to the BFH and my bad aim LOL

Here are some pics

All the crap that came out the head:

You can see the poor condition of the cam

Little bit of rust down there on the old bearings

Matt_P · Oct 25, 2012

More progress, After using a torch, hydraulic pressure, hammers, and prybars I finally got all the pistons out the engine. The walls of cylinders 1 and 5 are definitely rough, Im positive Ill have to go .040 over to clean them up.

I got everything hot tanked and got the head and exhaust manifold shot blasted. The head will definitely need new valve seats and guides and probably about .015 taken off the deck to clean that up.

Here are some pics, hope to start boring and honing tomorrow, align hone first if necessary but all the mains look real nice

Block hot tanked: