Slow start but fine after

[cowwboy]

Ok, I know this subject seems to have been covered pretty well. But this truck is kicking my azz.
It takes a good 20 seconds for it to build high pressure oil both hot or cold and then runs fine.
My IPR shows 85% when cranking and once the icp comes up the truck fires up and the IPR drops to 30% and ICP is equal to desired. The ICP varies by throttle when driving and matches desired and it still runs fine.
The only odd thing is that the lp dummy gauge drops off when at idle and cranking.

I purchased the IPR leak tool and ran it up to 120psi with no sign of a leak from either valve cover or by the pump itself. If there is a leak it is not audible by my ears.

I did the oil filter fill check and it takes about 10-11 seconds to fill with the drain back pushed down.

I replaced the LPOP, lp regulator, IPR, LP oil switch, and ICP in the last week.
In march the oil cooler, IPR screen, and EGR ****** were installed.

Also this happened suddenly two weeks ago. Stopped at the DR office and it just decided it didn't want to start after. Then as soon as it was towed home it ran. From now on it takes a long crank and even sometimes won't start.

Before that it would bust off within 3 to 4 seconds and the dummy gauge never dropped off.

I am almost to the point of taking it in to the stealership and just get ready for the raping.


The truck is a late 04 with 210k with the ICP in the valve cover.
Stock turbo, stock sticks,.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[pdumont01]

The dummy plugs in the oil rail could be bad but you should hear a leak. And also I've seen hpops fail like that. Why did you replace the lpop and all the other stuff? What is the ICP pressure while cranking?

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[cowwboy]

I stand corrected on the oil filter test. The truck won't build ICP but also won't fill the oil filter at all now.
I first thought the lp oil switch was bad so replaced it, then went to the regulator thinking maybe the spring was weak, then to the pump itself.
I am going to drain the pan after work and hopefully borrow a borescope from work and see if the pickup maybe came un bolted???
I am not sure where to go from here.

 

[pdumont01]

If you have a large enough hp leak the low pressure won't build either. I highly doubt the pickup came loose I've never seen that. How did the old pump look?

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[cowwboy]

The pump looked good, no abnormal wear on the covers and no patterns on the gears.
Worst case it may have been a slightly looser tolerance then the new one.

But any HP leak would have show up using this correct?
http://www.accuratediesel.com/shop/251.html
I could tell there was some air going into the motor by watching the oil bubbles in the clear teflon hose. But it was not able to hear any leak.

Could something have plugged up the oil pickup?

 

[pdumont01]

Unless it was making a horrible noise before probably not. The only things that usually ruin the 6.0s is the needle bearing from the lifters coming apart. Excessive rtv has been known to clog 7.3 pickups lol .

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[cowwboy]

Well I pulled the pump cover and drained the oil pan to see if I could see anything.
The scope wouldn't fit through the passage in the front cover and when looking in the oil pan I could not see anything out of the ordinary.
What could be clogged or disconnected that would cause no oil to come into the filter housing?
I noticed a pressure test port being listed in the 6.0 bible. Is that before the oil cooler or after? I am wondering if something somehow got plugged inthe cooler since it was just replaced. Maybe some dirt???

I replaced the ipr screen right after the oil cooler because a piece of cotton? ended up on it.
It looked kind of like the fuzz that is on the bottom of the oil filter.
Could some more of that be somewhere???

I have never used anything but mototrcraft but no telling what the previous owner did.


Also if the drainback or the other valve in the filter housing screwed up what would be the signs?

 

[pdumont01]

Usually if the HP oil reservoir is cleaned with shop rags it leaves lint behind. I always used paper towels and carb clean replaced the reservoir screen that usually is broken. To do it properly the reservoir must be drained completely of oil and cleaned, any dirt or debris will compromise the IPR. What is it making for ICP pressure when cranking 0psi?

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[cowwboy]

I stopped by the mechanics shop when he did the oil cooler and it was all cleaned out and he showed me where my old screen still looked good.
The ICP currently shows less then 50 psi.
When it was still starting up it would jump to whatever was desired. My logger doesn't show in psi and I forgot the units.
But it goes up to where it should be and at idle my icp is around 30%. Even when under hard load the icp wouldn't hit 85%.
To me it sounds like it is starving for oil but not sure how to see if the hpop reservoir is dry or has oil in it.

If I am not getting oil to the filter housing how can it be a HP oil issue?

 

[pdumont01]

Same way that the system shows no oil pressure when cranking engine with a big enough leak pump uses the oil up before it even gets a chance to build pressure in the housing. I mean its just a guess, I find it hard to believe that there is something wrong with the low pressure side especially if you replaced the pump and checked everything. How did the front cover look where the pump rides no grooves?

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[cowwboy]

Housing looks good.
If I pour oil into the filter housing will it drain back into the pump housing?
I was thinking if I leave the cover off the pump and pour a small amount into the filter housing i can see if there is a blockage between the two.
Then also fill the oil pan with a gallon or so of oil and see if I can use a shop vac to draw the oil into the open pump housing. Kind of prove that there isn't a break in the pickup tube.

What ways can I test the various bypasses and drain back valves?
There is a filter housing drain and a anti drainback valve correct?
Or is there more that could be causing me trouble?

 

[pdumont01]

Theres 2 valves in the oil filter housing and the regulator on the bottom of the front cover. I can't say I have seen them fail. Something pretty big would have to be blocking the flow. I guess you could take out the ICP sensor and crank it lol if the low pressure pump isn't working nothing should come out. I have definitely had HP systems cause low/no base oil pressure on the 6.0 without actually being there working on it its all speculation.

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[cowwboy]

This is my results. https://youtu.be/kDs2SXVrCK8
I filled the filter housing with oil and held down the drain valve. It held fine. I poured one gallon of oil in the pan and used a shop vac to pull from inlet side of the lpop with the cover off and it had no problem sucking oil up. So maybe a blockage between the pump discharge and filter inlet? What is between the two?

 

[pdumont01]

Only a passage in the block to the filter housing. Unless they put a plug in it and forgot to remove it its a pretty good sized passage. Maybe blow air through the passage up to the filter and see if you hear it coming out in the housing.

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[cowwboy]

Can i do that without pulling the lpop gears out again?

 

[pdumont01]

You'd have to have the pump gears out

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[cowwboy]

Well i used a shop vac to see if oil could be sucked into the oil filter housing and it did. And then It would pump oil into it when cranking.
It did start up again, but took about 20 seconds to build pressure. Then once running it ran at 30 percent ipr.
Think ill break down and take it to a diesel shop monday.

 

[pdumont01]

I think it is HP related. Update on what they find if you take it somewhere.

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[webb06]

when you pressurized the high side did you close the ipr valve? Does your truck have the branch tunes that require the stc fitting and cannot be updated? Is your hpop the circular aluminum style?


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[cowwboy]

Mine is a little 04 so it doesn't have the stc.
I used the tool that replaces the ipr valve for leak checks.
What really sucks is my back is giving me trouble again so can only stand to work on it about an hr at a time.
Figure ill take it over Monday unless i have a stroke of genius between then and now.