Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

[TyCorr]

Ill admit, i didnt buy any injectors until 2010 because until then, o didnt see the point. My first set were 175/80s and 38r. And it did seem like anything larger and you'd blow the motor into a mosaic of pieces. LOL

I didnt do anything, merely took advantage of the trial and error of those before me.

 

[Strokin572]

Trying to bring this back up. I only ordered 175/80s for the time being. Would it even be worth me getting into tuning with them? Would I be better off waiting? Or could I learn with the smaller injectors? I'm doing a rebuild with headstuds, valve springs, push rods, machining etc. I'm building it with bigger injectors and whatnot in the future plans. If you think I should still go ahead and order Minotaur what all do I need? Just order the minotaur package? Do I need the hydra extension cable they have to hook to the computer to update tunes? I also really like the look of the gauge pod adapter. If I could use that. Sorry for being completely not sure what all I need.

 

[superpsd]

In my opinion if you want to learn no better way than to jump on in. I was making tuning changes when I had my stock injectors. Mainly to get my feet wet before I started going bigger. If you buy the Minotaur/Hydra kit you get the license the files, hydra and the extension cable. It's also a lot cheaper than buying it all seperately. Cool thing is you get the list of the php canned tunes and you can build off of those. You can also overlay say a stock tune PW map for example with a performance map and see what is changed.

 

[Charles]

Tuning is tuning. Things get harder the faster the injector, that's about it.

Conceptually, everything is always the same. When to spray, how hard to spray, how long to spray. There is NOTHING else going on with 7.3 diesel engine tuning... all the maps, parameters and functions in the world can never do anything other than those 3 things.

That's why a small gear driven camshaft stroking plungers up and down works so well. The actual goal at the end of the day ain't rocket science, although coaxing the computer into doing it sometimes can be...

Most important thing is the order...

Always, mass fuel desired, then injection control pressure, then pulsewidth, with each feeding into the next. Working out of order will send you in circles...


I wish I could rewrite the function that relates boost to MFD so that it relates boost to PW... Would be SOOOOO easy to control fueling without neudering ICP! We need ICP.... it's PW we can't have too much of at low boost!

Anybody else view that is a serious bonehead coding screw up?

 

[Strokin572]

Looks like when I order parts I'll be ordering minotaur with my hydra. This and the many other tuning threads I have read have me excited to try this out

 

[MeTo]

I read this entire thread, I'm retired. Thanks for the info.

I have a TS6 with Swamp's tunes, I would like to try other tuner's handy work. Is it possible to purchase maybe two tunes and have them loaded while keeping the other
4 Swamp tunes? I was told by one person, no, it's all or none.

I recently returned the babies and switched to NEW Alliant ACs.

 

[Charles]

I read this entire thread, I'm retired. Thanks for the info.

I have a TS6 with Swamp's tunes, I would like to try other tuner's handy work. Is it possible to purchase maybe two tunes and have them loaded while keeping the other
4 Swamp tunes? I was told by one person, no, it's all or none.

I recently returned the babies and switched to NEW Alliant ACs.

I can't remember if it formats the entire chip when you burn it or not...

Regardless, the one you have would be programmed in positions 1, 2, 3 and 4, so even if you wanted to add to and it did NOT format, you can't select to burn to 4, and 5.

 

[joe d]

Hydra....

 

[N2GN2]

Matt confirmed it erases the chip when you burn tunes on the TS.

 

[MeTo]

That figures, thanks for the info.

 

[Charles]

That figures, thanks for the info.

Even if it didn't, you can't add programs.... so if you selected to burn a 2 position to burn the two files you wanted to add, it would burn the new files into slots 1 and 2, not 5 and 6.....

 

[TyCorr]

Even if it didn't, you can't add programs.... so if you selected to burn a 2 position to burn the two files you wanted to add, it would burn the new files into slots 1 and 2, not 5 and 6.....

Only system Ive ever used is php's burner and the ts 6 pos. It even tells you what position to be in. The ONLY control you had was the pcm family to choose.

Im sure you know that, just for anyone else reading.

 

[uncool]

"I wish I could rewrite the function that relates boost to MFD so that it relates boost to PW... Would be SOOOOO easy to control fueling without neudering ICP! We need ICP.... it's PW we can't have too much of at low boost!"

I am not a tuner, nor do I have software yet, just thinking out loud.

So I have been thinking about this for a bit with my trans tuning with PCS.
In essence, we run a 2 bar map sensor that has some limited range,
IE, ~18 psi = full fuel that the PCM commands or looks for.
~24 psi = check engine light for over boost.

So as the PCM sees 18 psi, it says yahoo I have full fuel, I don't care what you throttle position/ICP/MFD and so on is. Just because your boost gauge goes to 50 PSI, you PCM doesn't care.

So, would it be an advantage to us to use a different MAP sensor that made better use of the 0 - 5 V signal that the PCM sees? More linear fuel delivery and smoother.

 

[N2GN2]

I use the 6.0 map sensor on my 7.3.

 

[Charles]

"I wish I could rewrite the function that relates boost to MFD so that it relates boost to PW... Would be SOOOOO easy to control fueling without neudering ICP! We need ICP.... it's PW we can't have too much of at low boost!"

I am not a tuner, nor do I have software yet, just thinking out loud.

So I have been thinking about this for a bit with my trans tuning with PCS.
In essence, we run a 2 bar map sensor that has some limited range,
IE, ~18 psi = full fuel that the PCM commands or looks for.
~24 psi = check engine light for over boost.

So as the PCM sees 18 psi, it says yahoo I have full fuel, I don't care what you throttle position/ICP/MFD and so on is. Just because your boost gauge goes to 50 PSI, you PCM doesn't care.

So, would it be an advantage to us to use a different MAP sensor that made better use of the 0 - 5 V signal that the PCM sees? More linear fuel delivery and smoother.

Yes, you can use whatever sensor you want. The PCM analog to digital converter only sees voltage, doesn't care what the pressure range is.

Problem is, it will control MFD, not just pw, so you lose icp AND pw instead of just pw...

I don't want to lose ICP at low boost. I need all my icp to get up ON boost, lol.

I haven't ever used the map based fueling as of yet. It's always all 100's...

 

[N2GN2]

Charles, your inbox is plum full!

 

[Charles]

I took a minute to dial my 02 Manual program for the hotter weather and really made some big strides. I had the truck pulling hard at 1200 or so rpm with a dual tandem gooseneck in tow at 3000psi with very little visible exhaust. That's tough.... with any injector nozzle. The truck would accelerate nicely uphill below through and over 1200rpm (backroad cruising in OD) without smoking.

Also.... I believe I have figured out how to coerce the boost/mass fuel into conceptual usability, although I honestly haven't needed it yet.

If you set yourself up so that you can have full ICP by say 60% MFD, or 50% MFD, then you basically drive the truck on roughly half the MFD scale. THEN.... when you're up on boost you let the boost vs MFD table bring in the extra MFD from 50 or 60% and up as the boost comes in. If you set your pw vs MFD so that under this MFD range, you have low-boost happy values, then you can force the boost vs MFD into becoming a boost vs PW modifier table...

Little bit of dicking around to avoid a conceptual blunder, but doable IMO. Once I get the truck dialed for drivability, I might try to let boost bring in extra pw up top for full power, although to be honest, even without smoke at the lower (like 1.5 ish ms range) pw values the engine is basically at the limit of the stock trans.

200's are magic. You'd be amazed what 3000psi at 1400rpm will do for your smoke control, lol.

 

[PABowhunter]

Charles, what are your egts when pulling in the 1200 to 1400 rpm range like that? Is the engine lugging hard or are you already building boost at that level?

I forget what turbo you're running. 38r?

 

[Charles]

Charles, what are your egts when pulling in the 1200 to 1400 rpm range like that? Is the engine lugging hard or are you already building boost at that level?

I forget what turbo you're running. 38r?

Don't know EGT, I don't have a gauge... this truck has no gauges aside from the factory cluster.

Watching boost on the PCS monitor, the truck is making 5 to 10lbs of boost. If it were getting too hot I would smell/feel it. With no visible smoke, it shouldn't be hot anyway.

It's got an old pyro in the driver's manifold from a previous owner, maybe I'll hook that to the PCS if I have time and monitor EGT.

Turbo is a 38R with a 1.15 housing. It doesn't seem to have any trouble making power sub 1300rpm. I can accelerate just fine at that rpm on flat ground and hold speed or slightly accelerate on most any hill before a downshift would be needed.

Now I have to figure out the boost vs MFD and bring in power up top (over 1700rpm) with boost.

 

[Strokin572]

Just got my new laptop and got Minotaur downloaded trying to make some sense of it, and get my definition files and everything figured out. Truck still isn't even close to being ready, but I was curious to halfway see what's going on in the software.