Upcoming Head Gasket replacement

kleake

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Found 1 slightly bent pushrod on the other side, but things look a lot better over there. Only a slight mark on one piston that could easily be overlooked if you wasn't looking for it. I bolted the head on the driver side back on and pressured each cyl up and you guys were right. Air flowing to the exhaust port on the rear cyl where the piston dent was the biggest. Looks like one bent valve. I'll be talking to Ford tomorrow since these are still under warranty.

So far, at least 1 bad valve and 3 bent push rods.
 

kleake

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exactly what happened to me...

Ouch!

Advice taken, my local dealership will have 2 new heads, 2 new sets of rockers (just to be safe), 3 new push rods, and a full set of valve bridges here tomorrow and will take care of the warranty on at least the heads and rockers. Unfortunately the push rods and valve bridges will be out of my pocket, however I will be talking to them about the labor involved. They are supposed to cover up to $150 for the labor involved in a warranty issue so that may offset the cost of those. Still not as good as I would like, but at least I should be starting with a correct set of heads and be back where I should have been 9 months ago.

You can bet I will be double and triple checking everything on these before putting them on, especially valve stem height. And then once they are on, I will be doing a compression check, leak test, and interference check on every cylinder before I slap a valve cover on.
 

AirFishAutomotive

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Ouch!

Advice taken, my local dealership will have 2 new heads, 2 new sets of rockers (just to be safe), 3 new push rods, and a full set of valve bridges here tomorrow and will take care of the warranty on at least the heads and rockers. Unfortunately the push rods and valve bridges will be out of my pocket, however I will be talking to them about the labor involved. They are supposed to cover up to $150 for the labor involved in a warranty issue so that may offset the cost of those. Still not as good as I would like, but at least I should be starting with a correct set of heads and be back where I should have been 9 months ago.

You can bet I will be double and triple checking everything on these before putting them on, especially valve stem height. And then once they are on, I will be doing a compression check, leak test, and interference check on every cylinder before I slap a valve cover on.



you need to get the heads decked, they are notoriously ****ful from ford
 

96F350KID

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I don't know why anyone hasn't said anything yet but Job 1 6.4s have longer pushrods than job2+ trucks. They used 6.0 pushrods which measure 9.847 and the replacement rockers require 9.800 pushrods. Without doing the change with rockers you run the chance of having the valves hung open a bit OR jacking a lifter. The reason for the lifter failure is strictly due to the cam design. Replace all 16 pushrods and you can order the lifters from Ford as a "Guide Set" is what they call it. Cheaper than by themselves. Remember any Ford part has a 2 year warranty. So even though Mahle is cheaper they're warranty isn't the same. Usually all 6.4s except late 09 trucks need pushrods, rockers, and lifters. We always cringe when one comes to the shop because their is so much that goes wrong with them. Good luck!
 

AirFishAutomotive

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I don't know why anyone hasn't said anything yet but Job 1 6.4s have longer pushrods than job2+ trucks. They used 6.0 pushrods which measure 9.847 and the replacement rockers require 9.800 pushrods. Without doing the change with rockers you run the chance of having the valves hung open a bit OR jacking a lifter. The reason for the lifter failure is strictly due to the cam design. Replace all 16 pushrods and you can order the lifters from Ford as a "Guide Set" is what they call it. Cheaper than by themselves. Remember any Ford part has a 2 year warranty. So even though Mahle is cheaper they're warranty isn't the same. Usually all 6.4s except late 09 trucks need pushrods, rockers, and lifters. We always cringe when one comes to the shop because their is so much that goes wrong with them. Good luck!

why cringe if thats the business your in ?, just tell them what to expect off the bat and they will be fine, or if they dont want to fix it buy it and flip it, win win all around LOL
 

96F350KID

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Because a lot of these people were had by crooked dealers. $10k+ repairs will sometimes sink a business. I'd never buy a 6.4 and flip it. Everything we've done is 100% and I don't trust a 6.4 at all. I prefer Ford to anything else but the 6.4 is the biggest pile of crap they ever used IMO. They're only good to 100k and then most of the issues arise. I tell everyone what they're getting into before we get started but there comes a point when you're fixing something that just can't be fixed.
 

Lipka101

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Oh. The exaggeration here. Been watching some bill Hewitt recently?

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Lipka101

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Read your post again. Just about everything there is at least a little bit exaggerated. Kleake, this sucks but sounds like you got it figured out. Planning on keeping the pistons in there?

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96F350KID

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Like I said In My Opinion. I didn't exaggerate anything. I have 4 here right now between 80-140k that all need rockers and 2 need HPFP. One needs an engine from a leaking HPFP filling it with diesel. Been doing this 10 years now and even 6.0s can't get screwed up as bad as a 6.4 from just someone owning it and driving it. Not becoming a total enthusiast over one or beating the piss out of it. These are owned by old retired guys.
 

kleake

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you need to get the heads decked, they are notoriously ****ful from ford

I had the heads checked by a reputable machine shop before putting them on, and I checked them myself (as best I could with my tools). All checked out good.

I don't know why anyone hasn't said anything yet but Job 1 6.4s have longer pushrods than job2+ trucks. They used 6.0 pushrods which measure 9.847 and the replacement rockers require 9.800 pushrods. Without doing the change with rockers you run the chance of having the valves hung open a bit OR jacking a lifter. The reason for the lifter failure is strictly due to the cam design. Replace all 16 pushrods and you can order the lifters from Ford as a "Guide Set" is what they call it. Cheaper than by themselves. Remember any Ford part has a 2 year warranty. So even though Mahle is cheaper they're warranty isn't the same. Usually all 6.4s except late 09 trucks need pushrods, rockers, and lifters.

Wait a minute,,,, so are you telling me there was a change in the head design, and Ford knew this, and THIS is what caused my bent valve, push rods, and dents in my pistons??????? I originally replaced my heads, lifters, and rockers, but I did not replace the push rods because they were all good. Why the heck did Ford not tell me about this change, I ordered the parts based on VIN? And then, when I ran into a problem, I discussed it with their guy about machining the valve bridges to provide clearance when all I needed was the new style push rod to go with the new style head and rockers???? If this is truly the case, I am going to push back on Ford even more! If they revise a part that requires a different part to be changed, are they not liable if they fail to inform of the change? I ordered by VIN, which I should be able to assume and exact replacement. And you mention lifter failure? I replaced those previously also, are you saying I should swap them again just to be sure?

Kleake, this sucks but sounds like you got it figured out. Planning on keeping the pistons in there?
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At this point I am. I inspected them as close as I can and I don't see any cracks or evidence where one might start. They are indented a decent amount, more than I like, but it really is more cosmetic and not structural from what I can see.

I didn't exaggerate anything. I have 4 here right now between 80-140k that all need rockers and 2 need HPFP. One needs an engine from a leaking HPFP filling it with diesel. Been doing this 10 years now and even 6.0s can't get screwed up as bad as a 6.4 from just someone owning it and driving it. Not becoming a total enthusiast over one or beating the piss out of it. These are owned by old retired guys.

I understand where you are coming from, and there is a lot of negative comments about the 6.4, however, there are many of us out there that have had much better luck than that. I had 220k on mine when I tore it apart. Everything in it was still running perfect with the exception of head gasket starting to leak under heavy acceleration. It's never been touched until that time and it was tuned and worked hard most of it's life. I replaced all of the common components just so they wouldn't fail anytime soon after and THAT is where my issue started. It appears that the change you mentioned Ford made has bit me. On the contrary though, my neighbor had a 6.0L that was in the shop 6 times in the last 2 years (twice I towed him home). 3 of those times was for the same issue. Once even as he drove it from the repair shop directly to the dealer to sell it, it died on the way and went right back to the shop. His truck had 125K on it when he was finally able to make it to the dealer to get rid of it. I think all trucks have issues, and I definitely agree the 6.4 is the most expensive to fix, but I am not convinced that they are any more prone to failure than any others when the issues are addressed properly.
 

kleake

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Well I'll be!!!! 96F350KID got it right! The new push rods are shorter than the originals! I talked with my reputable dealer that has a master certified (whatever the highest rank is) diesel tech and he said there is only 1 length push rod for a 6.4.... Looky here:

20170328_200944_zpsaoqh9ndn.jpg


20170328_200951_zpsbl6him3p.jpg


As they say, the proof is in the pudding.... THAT explains ALL of the issues I was having the first time around. WHY was this not ever brought up at the dealer and WHY does many Ford techs not know about this? THIS almost cost me an entire engine that just had $$$$ put into it...

Do you think there was any damage to the lifters?
 

Lipka101

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Hmmm. I have heard that the job ones were shorter and many guys also use 6.4 pushrods on 6.0s after heads are decked.

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kleake

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Hmmm. I have heard that the job ones were shorter and many guys also use 6.4 pushrods on 6.0s after heads are decked.

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Backwards there. The job1 trucks have the longer push rods which were replaced in later versions with the shorter 6.0 push rods. Since my stock job1 push rods were longer, this caused me clearance issues when I replaced all other parts. I think the change was in the rocker assembly causing a need for shorter push rods.
 

Jonnydime

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Would you be able to throw up some dimensions of your rockers? The thickness of the pedestal as well.
 

Lipka101

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Rockers won't be wrong. Just the pushrods if you still have the longer ones.

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Jonnydime

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Rockers won't be wrong. Just the pushrods if you still have the longer ones.

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I did mine over a year ago and only replaced the rockers. I didn't swap the pedestal just the rockers themselves.
 

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