Cknox121
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and go.....
I have two tial V44mm gates, water cooled. What aftermarket regulator would you recommend?
I have two tial V44mm gates, water cooled. What aftermarket regulator would you recommend?
Wastegate regulator recommendations
- Thread starter Cknox121
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Cknox121
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The
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webb06
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Most don't worry about running coolant through the gates. I'm not sure what regulator mine is....it came with my gate though lol
HOOV3R
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farmin powerstroke
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I just got one from a hardware store. Ran the hoses in the cab so I can tune it on the go.
madman1234509
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Good luck..... Unless it's a boost pressure regulator that actually bleeds off air, you'll have little to no adjustment. A regular air pressure regulator does not bleed off pressure, so all of the pressure that passes through it goes into the Wastegate, which acts as a dead head. The pressure just builds up in the gate with your rise in boost. An air pressure regulator works well when you are regulating air through a hose or spray gun or something the relieves the air at the end of the line. I've tested this on a mock set up off of my truck while tuning my gates. I ended up finding a spring combo that works well for the time being...
I will end up buying an ams500, it's does way more than I need, but it works as far as regulating how much pressure is applied to the gate. There are other electronic boost controller options, but I'd recommend anything that is dual solenoid. Plenty of companies make manual boost controllers as well, that have an orifice that bleeds off pressure.
I will end up buying an ams500, it's does way more than I need, but it works as far as regulating how much pressure is applied to the gate. There are other electronic boost controller options, but I'd recommend anything that is dual solenoid. Plenty of companies make manual boost controllers as well, that have an orifice that bleeds off pressure.
Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto
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How many regulators do you actually have experience with?
Because your 100% wrong with your statement.
We run spring pressure on the top then add air to adjust for more boost. Open bottom port. Works absolutely perfect.
Boost controllers with air bleeds work as well. But they are a different principle.
Either way, if it needs X psi of air to add to make X boost, a standard two port regulator works fine. Once it reaches x psi it does not add any more pressure than where it is set.. A boost controller does the same as well.
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Motostroker
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I was going to run boost to the side of the gate, and let it vent through the top. Will that work?
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White_monster
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Why?
Boost to the side will push the gate open. Regulate to the top as needed to achieve needed boost and bp and leave the side alone.
Motostroker
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madman1234509
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Morgan I had the same set up, and still had a lack of adjustability, if you attach one of these 2 port regulators to an air hose, and hook up a gauge post regulator then plug the end of the line. The pressure continues to build up in the end of the line, regardless of what the regulator is set at. It works to an extent but not as it should.
I've run the set up you've mentioned. I've run regulated to the side, full boost on top. Regulated to the top, full boost to the side. Only regulated to the top like you said. All with minimal to no changes in boost pressure ratios. The waste gate acts as a dead head.
A boost controller has solenoids to bleed off or allow air into the gate. You request 5psi on top of the gate, it put 5 psi on top, and excess pressure is relieved through the "exhaust" solenoid. A boost controller only adds x psi because it has the ability to blow off the excess pressures. A generic air pressure regulator is ment to be on a hose that has an outlet post regulator that is blowing off pressure, that's the scenario that it only lets x psi though, if that hole becomes plugged, pressure continues to build up as boost rises. Idk maybe I'm totally a** backwards. I'll just post a video of the mock up test that I did to show what I mean.
I've run the set up you've mentioned. I've run regulated to the side, full boost on top. Regulated to the top, full boost to the side. Only regulated to the top like you said. All with minimal to no changes in boost pressure ratios. The waste gate acts as a dead head.
A boost controller has solenoids to bleed off or allow air into the gate. You request 5psi on top of the gate, it put 5 psi on top, and excess pressure is relieved through the "exhaust" solenoid. A boost controller only adds x psi because it has the ability to blow off the excess pressures. A generic air pressure regulator is ment to be on a hose that has an outlet post regulator that is blowing off pressure, that's the scenario that it only lets x psi though, if that hole becomes plugged, pressure continues to build up as boost rises. Idk maybe I'm totally a** backwards. I'll just post a video of the mock up test that I did to show what I mean.
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White_monster
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Your wrong.
madman1234509
New member
Idk, maybe the regulator I used in the mock up was faulty or leaking giving me Shi**y results and screwing my thoughts on he whole thing. I'll try to duplicate what happened before and see if it does happen if you guys can help me figure out what the heck it's doing.
The way Morgan described it makes complete sense. And that's the original way we set it up, But no matter how far out one way or the other we turned the regulator, we had no changes. The result was always the gate not opening soon enough or opening at all. This was also with a light spring in the gate.
The way Morgan described it makes complete sense. And that's the original way we set it up, But no matter how far out one way or the other we turned the regulator, we had no changes. The result was always the gate not opening soon enough or opening at all. This was also with a light spring in the gate.
I use a standard regulator to adjust pressure in a set of air springs and it works fine. It is the same concept the air dead heads at the bag. The only way air gets into or out of the spring is through the regulator. My post regulator gauge always reads what I set it at.
Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto
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No PRESSURE to the side. Only to the top.
Let me ask you this, if you have a regulator on your air compressor. You set it to 50 psi. The tank has 120. How much air pressure is in the line after the regulator? If you guessed 120 psi you either have a just regulator or your doing something wrong.
I've done tons of 2 port regulators. Every truck I've ever done a gate setup on in fact. Every wastegate kit SDP sells has a two port regulator. Other than a boost controller the only other setup I've even seen is a two port regulator.
Just like this
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Let me ask you this, if you have a regulator on your air compressor. You set it to 50 psi. The tank has 120. How much air pressure is in the line after the regulator? If you guessed 120 psi you either have a just regulator or your doing something wrong.
I've done tons of 2 port regulators. Every truck I've ever done a gate setup on in fact. Every wastegate kit SDP sells has a two port regulator. Other than a boost controller the only other setup I've even seen is a two port regulator.
Just like this
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madman1234509
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Ok, so when I mocked up a test. Hose, regulator, with host post regulator and a gauge. Open the line with the regulator set at say 10psi. The pressure post regulator was 10 because the air was escaping I assume. But as soon as we attached the mock up to a gate, the pressure in the line post regulator would continue to climb, and eventually equal whatever the inlet pressure was, and I figured it was due to the dead head of the gate and air not being able to bleed off at the regulator or post regulator. I'll try to replicate what happened. It could be a junk regulator. I'll try to get a video this week.
HOOV3R
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You must have used a non-relieving regulator, which will do that in a deadheaded system. You need a relieving type.
madman1234509
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That's probably it man. I'm starting to think that from what these guys are saying. Which would make sense.... And make me look like an idiot, as usual.... I should just stick to saving lives, and driving my truck. These regulators are just generic hardware store regulators I believe...
madman1234509
New member
Alright, so lets see if this makes sense. In this reference I'm talking about your plain Jane ball and check valve air regulator and manual boost controllers. I'm not sure if this is what you guys use in your kits, but these are what I've been using, and I think this explains why I got the results that I've had.
For reference we will talk about a waste gate with a regulated line to the top, open port on the bottom. Like Morgan stated he uses.
In a ball and check valve regulator, you screw the knob all the way down, applying more pressure to the spring, until it bottoms out and no matter how much boost pressure you have on it, it wont push the ball up to allow boost through. Essentially this means the gate is working on just the spring pressure in the gate, and the small amount of pressure that is made in the enclosed chamber/line as the piston is pushed up from exhaust gas. Loosen the knob all the way up, and lets say the minimum setting only takes 10lbs of boost to push the ball up, due to the rating of the spring in the regulator, allowing any boost pressure after that to be applied to the top of the gate. So after 10lbs of pressure is applied to the regulator, there is full boost to the top of the gate because the regulator is only going to stay open. This is essentially the same scenario for all settings as you tighten the knob down. 20lbs, the spring is compressed enough to keep the ball down until 20psi pushes on it, and then after 20lbs all boost pressure applied to the gate because the regulator stays open. Eventually tightening down until the ball can no longer be moved by the amount of boost you make and the gate is only operated on by the spring pressure in the gate.
Now, it looks like the regulator Morgan posted a picture of is a variable orifice regulator, and it looks to be exactly the same as what I've been using, unless it is a self relieving style regulator which creates a regulated boost leak to limit the amount of air passed through it, but I haven't had much luck finding one like that. The cap is used to change the height of the piston in the regulator which changes the size of the orifice, directly changing the amount of air that can pass through at a given inlet pressure. So lets say you have your regulator 2 turns loosened from not allowing any air through. Say your air tank has 100 psi in it. You open your valve, allowing air to pass through the regulator, and it makes 10psi post regulator. What happens when you plug the end of the hose post regulator? The pressure evens out on both sides, because its only an orifice. Also, as we all know pressure on the outlet of a fixed orifice is directly changed by the inlet pressure on the orifice . If your tank suddenly has 150psi in it, you may end up having 15psi on the outlet of the same size orifice. So basically no matter how big or small your orifice is, eventually the air is going to even out on both sides because essentially there is no where for the air to escape or relieve. If your regulated line is on top, and an open bottom its causing your waste gate to stay shut, or mostly shut, unless your back pressure overcomes your boost. Which in that case, you'll almost always have 1:1 pressure ratios, or close to it depending on what the gate can flow, but you can't really adjust the gate, you can just limit the amount of time it takes the pressure to equal out causing it to stay shut.
I hope this makes sense, and like I said once I have a day off ill try to replicate this on video.... If you guys are using regulators that are able to leak off boost that passes through it, I can't see how these work. And if that is a Parker brand relieving style regulator can I have the part number? Because it'll solve all of my problems.
For reference we will talk about a waste gate with a regulated line to the top, open port on the bottom. Like Morgan stated he uses.
In a ball and check valve regulator, you screw the knob all the way down, applying more pressure to the spring, until it bottoms out and no matter how much boost pressure you have on it, it wont push the ball up to allow boost through. Essentially this means the gate is working on just the spring pressure in the gate, and the small amount of pressure that is made in the enclosed chamber/line as the piston is pushed up from exhaust gas. Loosen the knob all the way up, and lets say the minimum setting only takes 10lbs of boost to push the ball up, due to the rating of the spring in the regulator, allowing any boost pressure after that to be applied to the top of the gate. So after 10lbs of pressure is applied to the regulator, there is full boost to the top of the gate because the regulator is only going to stay open. This is essentially the same scenario for all settings as you tighten the knob down. 20lbs, the spring is compressed enough to keep the ball down until 20psi pushes on it, and then after 20lbs all boost pressure applied to the gate because the regulator stays open. Eventually tightening down until the ball can no longer be moved by the amount of boost you make and the gate is only operated on by the spring pressure in the gate.
Now, it looks like the regulator Morgan posted a picture of is a variable orifice regulator, and it looks to be exactly the same as what I've been using, unless it is a self relieving style regulator which creates a regulated boost leak to limit the amount of air passed through it, but I haven't had much luck finding one like that. The cap is used to change the height of the piston in the regulator which changes the size of the orifice, directly changing the amount of air that can pass through at a given inlet pressure. So lets say you have your regulator 2 turns loosened from not allowing any air through. Say your air tank has 100 psi in it. You open your valve, allowing air to pass through the regulator, and it makes 10psi post regulator. What happens when you plug the end of the hose post regulator? The pressure evens out on both sides, because its only an orifice. Also, as we all know pressure on the outlet of a fixed orifice is directly changed by the inlet pressure on the orifice . If your tank suddenly has 150psi in it, you may end up having 15psi on the outlet of the same size orifice. So basically no matter how big or small your orifice is, eventually the air is going to even out on both sides because essentially there is no where for the air to escape or relieve. If your regulated line is on top, and an open bottom its causing your waste gate to stay shut, or mostly shut, unless your back pressure overcomes your boost. Which in that case, you'll almost always have 1:1 pressure ratios, or close to it depending on what the gate can flow, but you can't really adjust the gate, you can just limit the amount of time it takes the pressure to equal out causing it to stay shut.
I hope this makes sense, and like I said once I have a day off ill try to replicate this on video.... If you guys are using regulators that are able to leak off boost that passes through it, I can't see how these work. And if that is a Parker brand relieving style regulator can I have the part number? Because it'll solve all of my problems.
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Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto
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I use diaphragm regulators. The style your showing would not be a very good candidate. And they would require an air bleed. I have a hallman boost controller, which has an air bleed. It works like that. I really don't like it. I will probably go back to a diaphragm style soon.
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