Which injector size recommended?

ConcordBobbah97 · Feb 23, 2015

hey guys, so my friend backed out on selling me his ATS, not surprised there. So id rather not go with stage 2s with the stock transmission. I am thinking either 160cc or 180cc from rosewood ( if they offer the 180s). My question is, which do you guys prefer in consideration of how the motor ran, how much more power did you see, and which of the two will get better fuel economy? I will be running PHP and the wicked wheel 2 will be my next investment. Also with 180s how needed is an intercooler?

CurtisF · Feb 23, 2015

Asking which injector upgrade will best keep a stock transmission from failing is like asking for a diet Coke with your Big Mac because you're trying to lose weight.

Doesn't matter what you run. Any added power is going to put stress on components that were not designed for it. You can blow up a stock transmission with bone stock injectors just as easily. Or you can put in very large injectors and have a stock transmission go forever. There's a lot more to it than just a blanket statement of "X" sized injectors and larger will definitely blow up a stock tranny.

You might want to re-think your strategy here. Exactly what are you trying to accomplish?

Justin@DP-Tuner · Feb 25, 2015

I wouldn't upgrade injectors trying to keep the trans alive. It really is a crap shoot and so many factors are involved. As stated, trucks with bone stock injectors blow up transmissions all the time. A big part of it is in the tuning, but also how well it has been taken care of, how you drive, etc. all come in to play.

I would aim for a HP number, get the injectors to match, then start saving up for a trans. There are many other better options out there besides the one you mentioned anyway. BTS and John Wood offer great choices. Even the Ford HD4R100 is a great trans if you plan to stay around the 400HP mark.

As far as power and economy go, 160cc and 180cc will be similar. I am a fan of the 160/30 combo, but I have rode in trucks with 180cc injectors than ran great. All about the quality of injector, driving habits, and tuning.

ConcordBobbah97 · Feb 25, 2015

Well I'll tell you guys for a fact I baby my truck, I'm talking I give it the boot once a month, I change my oil 1500 miles early for old reasons I guess, only run synthetic, I recently put the bts valve body and it made a world of a difference, my brother has a bts and that's far out there in a price range. I'll consider a 4r100 but my truck has 90k and it shifts better than any of the 7.3s I've been in. I'm also considering a tc but I'm aiming for 340ish and 650lbft rear wheel. And some more grunt when im towing all the toys. It's between the two sizes and I already have the t500

ConcordBobbah97 · Feb 25, 2015

Unless there are similar sizes and variations, I was basically under the impression that upping the nozzle sizes even to 30s was more of a risk, but with my hp numbers in mind and future modda intercooler ww2, yadah yadah yah, any other combos and reliable companies would be nice so I don't have to narrow it down to the two siZea

superpsd · Feb 25, 2015

Got to pay to play. I would toss some injectors in an if the tranission can't hold it then time for an upgrade.

TyCorr · Feb 26, 2015

I made a stock trans live for 225k miles...a 38r, a fuel system, and a race tune polished it off even with a vb and tc.

I then ran 175/80s and a super duper trans that can hold bla bla and it lasted two months and so I got a used stocker with 60k and did the converter/vb deal again. It held well and I sold it and got a twisted stg 2. Badass trans there! I sold mine back in November. Put a stocker in that supposedly worked good but it leaks trans fluid and seems to get hot just driving it. So I will have to get that fixed up.

bruce · Feb 26, 2015

If both are stock nozzled then they will both make the same. Get a set of 160/30's and a 38r and roll out. You know you're pissin money away changing the oil every 1500 miles right

CurtisF · Feb 26, 2015

ConcordBobbah97 said:
Unless there are similar sizes and variations, I was basically under the impression that upping the nozzle sizes even to 30s was more of a risk,

And a PMR motor was never ever ever ever supposed to handle 200% nozzles.

There's a lot of misconceptions out there about nozzle size. Nozzles will determine how quickly you can deliver fuel at given pressures and RPM. They don't necessarily determine horsepower.

Want more power? Then you increase the fuel. But how fast that fuel is delivered within a given window of time will determine how much smoke you make and how hot it's going to get, which will determine overall how much of that power you can actually use. If it takes too long for the fuel to come out because you restricted your nozzle size, you run into EGT issues long before you can fully utilize the power potential. On the flip side, if you go too large on nozzles, you can run into tuning nightmares to get it to run decent.

Nozzles should be selected to match the power to the needs. Not to be used as an indicator of maximum horsepower.

Back to the 200%..... I have a tune that I run that makes near bone-stock power. I could run this all day long every day on a stock tranny, and the transmission would never know that it's not a stock truck. There's more to it than just nozzle size. Tuning will ultimately control the power output, and how long that tranny lives.

ConcordBobbah97 · Feb 26, 2015

1500 miles early and that's just an estimate I normally just change the oil every 5500-6000 but I change it early just because I'm meticulous like that. I have an upgraded trans cooler on the way too, what do you reccomend for a converter?

Carolina444 · Feb 26, 2015

ConcordBobbah97 said:
1500 miles early and that's just an estimate I normally just change the oil every 5500-6000 but I change it early just because I'm meticulous like that. I have an upgraded trans cooler on the way too, what do you reccomend for a converter?

http://http://m.converter.com/?utm_referrer=#/App.aspx?ID=053f3&CT=3c6f4

BAMF0816 · Feb 26, 2015

ConcordBobbah97 said:
1500 miles early and that's just an estimate I normally just change the oil every 5500-6000 but I change it early just because I'm meticulous like that. I have an upgraded trans cooler on the way too, what do you reccomend for a converter?

you should probably hold off on the upgraded trans cooler. or swap it for a trans. gauge.... not really worth it from my experience(i was thinking the same, gotta upgrade everything.... not really the case here). And if you have one of those Magnafine in-line filters on the outlet side of the oem cooler, get rid of that and re-connect the lines with a hose and some clamps. ive been told that is a huge restriction. U should only have a magnafine filter if ford has done a transmission replacement.

for the T.C. : PI is what i like or recommend. you can usually find a used one for around $600. there are some other triple disk t.c.'s out there but i have no knowledge on how well they perform.

BAMF0816 · Feb 26, 2015

ConcordBobbah97 said:
I will be running PHP and the wicked wheel 2 will be my next investment. Also with 180s how needed is an intercooler?

i have a WW2 for a GT38 sitting around.

and the "need" to upgrade the intercooler for those injectors is really non-existent. more seasoned guys can chime in if im way off.

pullandpray · Feb 26, 2015

TyCorr said:
I made a stock trans live for 225k miles...a 38r, a fuel system, and a race tune polished it off even with a vb and tc.

I then ran 175/80s and a super duper trans that can hold bla bla and it lasted two months and so I got a used stocker with 60k and did the converter/vb deal again. It held well and I sold it and got a twisted stg 2. Badass trans there! I sold mine back in November. Put a stocker in that supposedly worked good but it leaks trans fluid and seems to get hot just driving it. So I will have to get that fixed up.

i have been reading a VB and a TC will make those 4r100s go along ways or so it seems.

TyCorr · Feb 26, 2015

Yea, it does but there is only so much ya can do!

My truck, in that setup. Tuned how I wanted made just over 400hp. I think that was partly because the trans.

Arisley · Feb 26, 2015

BAMF0816 said:
you should probably hold off on the upgraded trans cooler. or swap it for a trans. gauge.... not really worth it from my experience(i was thinking the same, gotta upgrade everything.... not really the case here). And if you have one of those Magnafine in-line filters on the outlet side of the oem cooler, get rid of that and re-connect the lines with a hose and some clamps. ive been told that is a huge restriction. U should only have a magnafine filter if ford has done a transmission replacement.

for the T.C. : PI is what i like or recommend. you can usually find a used one for around $600. there are some other triple disk t.c.'s out there but i have no knowledge on how well they perform.

So a trans cooler from a 6.0 L is not a good investment? Or the trans cooler that Bob at Dieselsite sells.

I beg to differ with you there.

cjfarm111 · Feb 26, 2015

PIS 160/30'2 and a 38R and call it a day. 6.0 tranny cooler keep the 4r100 alive alot longer.

Krause · Feb 26, 2015

Carolina444 said:
http://http://m.converter.com/?utm_referrer=#/App.aspx?ID=053f3&CT=3c6f4

BAMF0816 said:
for the T.C. : PI is what i like or recommend. you can usually find a used one for around $600. there are some other triple disk t.c.'s out there but i have no knowledge on how well they perform.

So I'm all for a PI torque converter. However, I've read they need more line pressure to perform optimally, and putting them on a stock tranny (particularly an E4OD, which has a different pump?) might not be the best option because they can't supply the line pressure needed?

I dont know, Transmissions are not my thing.. But I was under the impression the stock trannies are a bit 'leaky' through the internals, and the pump leaves something to be desired on some, so they may not provide what a PI converter needs..?

TyCorr · Feb 26, 2015

Honestly I would NOT spend 1200 dollars on a tc for a 2500(cost of stock.replacement from ford) transmission. Seems stupid. PI doesnt build those.converters. They specify the stall, as you could. They have them built, as you could. They have them painted, as you could,lol. Find a triple disc converter and get a vb(250 from everywhere)...now you've got a grand into.a.core.trans LOL

Having ran a tc/vb in a stock trans and a built trans id not waste my $$. Get a built one and forget it.

ConcordBobbah97 · Feb 26, 2015

Well I run php tunes and I've read that his egts are the lowest out there and I love the tunes personally, but like I said I'm looking for like 340ish read wheel and a little more grunt for them big hills when towing, any combinations and sizes would be nice