Turbo wheels

[johndeerezach]

So this discussing of this surging got started in a different thread that went off track.so I was told of what I thought of waste gate chatter is actually turbo surge. I would like to know if what's suppose to be stock on my turbo why it will eliminate surge. Thank you

 

[TARM]

This is how I understand it and may help you out so you know what you are experiencing and what it anything can or needs to be done about it:

There is a difference between surge and stall. What you are likely referring to is stall. That is the sound of air rushing back out past the comp wheel when you quickly let off the throttle while you are under boost. Also you will hear it when the trans shifts.

Surge happens when you are actually on the throttle under boost and you will hear whop whop whop sound this will also be accompanied by the actual boost fluttering up and down much to the tempo of the sound. What is happening is the comp wheel is actually getting getting ahead of the air its is forcing into the engine. This allows it to spin up but then its hit by the pressure equalizing and it suddenly has that force applied to it again. This is where you see the boost drop thru spike up a bit. The issue is its putting stress on the bearing as its thrust one direction then the other.

So the two big differences are one is when you let off the throttle the other is when you are on it. The other is that surge the latter of the two described above is the most damaging. Stall is something all turbos will have unless they have an anti stall setup which has a port, hose that routes air back around the comp to equalize pressure when load is suddenly dropped.


The reason many get surge after they have tuning changed ( have the truck chipped) is the fueling is changed. Usually to heavy fueling at some point in the curve is what I have heard. Different tuners different tunes will all act somewhat different with different levels of surge. I never noticed it with Matts tunes but had it with TW of the two TW IMO was fueled heavier down low.

What changing the stock SD wheel to the smaller Van wheel does is changes the map. It changes specifically the ratio of boost to shaft or wheel speed. This prevents the wheel from starting to surge as tech it is not able to move as much air per rev.

 

[neverkickn]

Tarm, aren't the van compressors and the SD compressors the same size? Do you mean the van turbo will not surge as bad cause of the larger turbine and turbine housing?

 

[TARM]

Did not mean to say smaller if I did. I meant less flow. Also not sure why I said specifically Van I had a few things I was working on when I posted and guess got my thoughts mixed.

IIRC the OBS wheel it has a different wheel design so its tends to spin up faster and has a tad less boost which means for a given boost level its moving less air. Sorry for any confusion I caused on this. Anyone can do a search on wicker wheel and get all they ever will want to read on the matter and then some.

 

[johndeerezach]

My case is surge. Under full throttle not letting off. So the wicked wheels are designed to elimitate the surge. I have a super chip on the truck.

 

[TARM]

They were not designed specifically to deal with surge. They were made for a slightly different compressor map curve. They were used first in the OBS which AFAIK predates the SD turbo. This wheels map curve just happens to help eliminate surge in the SD. My understanding which certainly could be wrong that after this was discovered vendors wanting to fill/capitalize a need starting offering them as the wicker wheel. Its the same wheel as that which was used in the OBS factory turbo. It should be pointed out that while its said to fix surge it actually only MAY eliminate or reduce it or not have any by the driver noticeable effect on the issue. The only thing that seems to have eliminated surge consistently is the ported comp housing such as that offered by purple people. Not exactly cheap and why so many try the wheel first. IMO many do the wheel swap for the main reason to get more turbo whine or whistle. IMO this is a age related thing i.e. 16-21 maybe more in some cases LOL

 

[PDT1081]

My case is surge. Under full throttle not letting off. So the wicked wheels are designed to elimitate the surge. I have a super chip on the truck.

With an early 99 you should already have a "wicked wheel" from the factory. Pull the intake tube off the turbo and see if all the vanes are the same size. Your best fix is an ATS Ported Compressor Housing. I think Beans is/was selling a wicked wheel and 1.0 exhaust housing kit that was to eliminate surge as well. If I'm not mistaken, the exhaust side was less expensive.

 

[Arisley]

Another option, ditch the SuperChip and get a 6 position TS style chip and get some custom tuning from one of our awesome vendors. My vote goes to Tony Wildman or Matt, they both do free reburns on your chip. But they all do good tunes. If that doesn't fix your surge, ditch the stock turbo and get a H2E turbo with a Hypermax mounting kit from Bob at Dieselsite. No more surge.

 

[rat49f6]

Another option is a van turbo...as long as you dont use your ebpv as a exhaust brake

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2

 

[johndeerezach]

They were not designed specifically to deal with surge. They were made for a slightly different compressor map curve. They were used first in the OBS which AFAIK predates the SD turbo. This wheels map curve just happens to help eliminate surge in the SD. My understanding which certainly could be wrong that after this was discovered vendors wanting to fill/capitalize a need starting offering them as the wicker wheel. Its the same wheel as that which was used in the OBS factory turbo. It should be pointed out that while its said to fix surge it actually only MAY eliminate or reduce it or not have any by the driver noticeable effect on the issue. The only thing that seems to have eliminated surge consistently is the ported comp housing such as that offered by purple people. Not exactly cheap and why so many try the wheel first. IMO many do the wheel swap for the main reason to get more turbo whine or whistle. IMO this is a age related thing i.e. 16-21 maybe more in some cases LOL

Hmmm. That means it puts me right in there @ 19 lolLOL

 

[johndeerezach]

Another option, ditch the SuperChip and get a 6 position TS style chip and get some custom tuning from one of our awesome vendors. My vote goes to Tony Wildman or Matt, they both do free reburns on your chip. But they all do good tunes. If that doesn't fix your surge, ditch the stock turbo and get a H2E turbo with a Hypermax mounting kit from Bob at Dieselsite. No more surge.

Yes my goal is to get a ts style and a slightly larger turbo. That's what my end goal is.

 

[TARM]

I would shoot for that chip ASAP first. You may have almost all your surge issues go away with that as you can get some good tuning. I recommend MAtt@ gearhead.

Short of that if you do a van turbo and get it from salvage yard or someone parting out the van get the pedestal with it and change them both out. No more EBPV to deal with eventually leaking and blocking off flow as it does even in the fully open position. Might get it all for the same price.

 

[dentexpowerstroke]

^whs, try custom tunes and see if that fixes it. My vote is for Gearhead or TW.

 

[johndeerezach]

well come to find out my truck was made in march of 99 and i was looking closer and im certain that means its a late model correct.

 

[Arisley]

That is correct.

 

[johndeerezach]

ok good so most likey wicked wheel first then save some and get a ts style chip and be done with her for a while.

 

[johndeerezach]

so i ordered a xdp x wheel and it is backordered but thats ok. i got pedestal orings becuase i thought if imma have the turbo off i might as well gut the ebpv and put new orings in while im in there. so im just thinking now what i need to start savinging for after i get back from vaction in march. hopefully a beans chip or gearhead and then stop trying to spend all my money lol.

 

[Lowdown89]

That wheel is pretty much always listed as Backordered on there... Just cancel it and order from dieselorings.com or dieselsite

 

[Justin@DP-Tuner]

so i ordered a xdp x wheel and it is backordered but thats ok. i got pedestal orings becuase i thought if imma have the turbo off i might as well gut the ebpv and put new orings in while im in there. so im just thinking now what i need to start savinging for after i get back from vaction in march. hopefully a beans chip or gearhead and then stop trying to spend all my money lol.

Check eBay for the wheel. I am sure you will find it cheaper and available. I bought mine through XDP and they did not have it listed as back ordered on the website when I ordered, but the next day I got an email saying it was. I called to complain and they said if I kept the order placed they would throw in a free t-shirt LOL

I kept my order placed and the wheel was shipped out the next day LOL I guess it wasn't that "back ordered".

 

[johndeerezach]

Check eBay for the wheel. I am sure you will find it cheaper and available. I bought mine through XDP and they did not have it listed as back ordered on the website when I ordered, but the next day I got an email saying it was. I called to complain and they said if I kept the order placed they would throw in a free t-shirt LOL

I kept my order placed and the wheel was shipped out the next day LOL I guess it wasn't that "back ordered".

i am guna try to do that, because it was the cheapest at 75$ free shipping.