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Message: [QUOTE="Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto, post: 805919, member: 8143"] I realize this and the points you make are valid. I take exception to a couple though. A 4r 300m input is no stronger than a 5r 300m input, etc same basic shaft. The intermediate is basically the same size etc I could go on from there. (I've talked to Brian) And you have to change the PCM, whether it be swapping in a manual or reflashing the auto pcm to a manual it doesn't matter. Can't stay the same. I also disagree that the 4r is gonna be any cheaper in the long run. Either will cost some good money. Once again we don't have any real failures with the good built 5rs using precision converters and the right tuning. The main downfall to the 5r is it's adaptive learning. If you tuned a 5r through a pcs controller you would have the same repeatable controllable shifts that a 4r has. I still see no need to change to a 4r at 700hp. I have guys running around 800+ with 5rs now that have no problems. The big difference is that the 4r has had a lot more time to perfect and get to where it's at now. Two years ago a 5r was not as good as it is now. With all the more refined tuning and better built 5rs I see the need to go to 4rs dwindling. Once again respectfully sharing my opinion. I agree there is not much differences between the two in comparable (high end) form. But like stated before I just don't see the need to do this swap for 99% of the 5r guys out there. [/QUOTE]

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