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Message: [QUOTE="Powerstroked162, post: 806620, member: 120"] Interesting comment that I'd like to touch on. A 4r swap at this given moment in time(with a auto pcm cal) WILL leave you with CEL lights. So are you referring to a manual trans flash 4r equipped truck not having lights? I know Craig tried to flash his truck to a manual with no luck and last I heard nobody had successfully made that happen as of yet. If you were talking about a regular old auto cal PCM 4r swap... then the ONLY one in the country that I know of whose got no CEL lights and a functioning cruise control system belongs to extreme3807. To this day, nobody knows how it happened and how to duplicate it. Craig's truck has CEL lights from the 4r swap he did a couple years ago with the help of Brian, Eric, and Myself. No Cruise Control though. JHaddox has a 4r swap in his built 6.4, CEL on in the dash, no cruise control. I know of another truck back east that also has a 4r swap and CEL lights on in the dash, with no cruise control. It's always been the major down fall of the swap, and has yet to be remedied to the best of my knowledge. A cruise control box would be great to have! I started on one a couple years ago but ended up bagging it. the drive wasn't there in the market to justify the cost and r&d. As far as I did get on it though was no easy task. Definitely one of the few projects to kick my ass. I utilized that old saying "quit while you're ahead" well with that one lol. If you get it up and going though Chris, I know it would help these swaps be more appealing to guys who won't give up their factory options for a 4r. Also, I agree that experience is key in these discussions and it does make or break some peoples decisions. What i don't agree with is the brow beating of the experienced people posting in here because they don't fall in line with the 4r believers. 3 years ago Craig asked me to help him put a 4r in his drag truck. At that time there was nothing on the market that could handle 1100hp in a CC/SB going down the strip. he was eating 5r's like nobodies business. Every 3-5 passes IIRC. Swapped to the 4r and BAM, making consecutive passes for weekends in a row with no issues but keeping a convertor in it after 30 passes set on kill in a 7500+ truck. Now, fast forward and what do we have today? 5r's so stout that one of the heaviest and nastiest 6.4's in the country can't break it and it doesn't hunt, or flare, or miss shifts, hang shifts, nothing. Just works.( Yes I know what you are thinking, just 1 truck running right isn't enough to convince you. I was only using said truck as an example of the 5r of todays capabilities. There are many strong trucks running with built 5r's and no issues. I just don't feel like listing every single one of them for the sake of debate). 5r Tuning has come a loooooong way and the R&D done on parts combos inside of the trans is really showing its worth these last 2 years. Now, that doesn't mean everybody builds the same 5r. No different then BTS vs Jasper. Just as easy as a 4r gets a bad rap for being junk because it was built by an incompetent builder, the 5r does as well. Same for tuning on both. So I guess my point is, as it's been all along, why(knowing all that) swap in a 4r for a 750hp DD 6.4 when the 5r has been proven to handle that and more with reliability and every bit of functionality as the 4r does? There's no point anymore. Is it cheaper? Yeah, it's cheaper then some comp 5r transmissions but not all. With the advances in the 5r and tuning over the past two years, is it any more reliable in a 750hp truck or a 10 second crew cab? No, not at all. Do I love the 4r? Absolutely! But not enough to leave my trucks instrument cluster lit up 24/7, sacrificing factory amenities like cruise control and killing resale value tremendously among a common market crowd(resale may also go up among forum members with a 4r swap too but the crowd interested in such a setup would be minimal by comparison). Now, 3 years ago... my answer would have been totally different and you wouldn't have been able to convince me to stick a built 5r in my truck any sooner then being the center piece of a donkey show in Montreal. So take it for what its worth. it's obviously isn't for everybody and many of us posting here, know that. Nobody here is telling somebody they can't do what they wish with their money either. When somebody asks though they deserve to get all the facts before they embark on a endeavor of this caliber. In the same token, I don't think anybody should be brow beating somebody else for opposing the swap with facts gained through personal experiences. Even though personal accomplishment resumes weren't distributed prior to this thread being started, some of us do have a little experience with the subject :) Very well said, Magic Morgan . [/QUOTE]