Hazing 7.3

glovemeister

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Purchased a truck a 99 superduty number of years ago with 238 or 250/80s, with t4, smith bros push rods and comp cams 910 springs, and arp headstuds.

It hazed at startup, until eot reached 160 then it quit. It stinks like fuel.

I tried 3 different tuners customer tuners on chips I got with the truck.

I pulled the sticks and had them flowtested, about 5 years ago, they passed. Also disconnected each injector and it made no difference to the smoke. I've pulled off the downpipe back then and it looked try/no oil.

I've ran a Ford spec blowby test using the special tool and it passes. I've also compression tested it twice with 2 different gauges, it looked good north of 400psi. Checked fuel pressure twice, once with in cab, and one with underhood manual gauge.

Idles pretty good.

Unplugged MAT no change. Can't remember if I verified EOT or not, but I'm thinking if that sensor was bad it would messup fueling according to a read of the shop manual.

I do seem to think I may have an oil consumption problem. Maybe a quart or so in like 3k miles.

Recently decided I didn't like the hooptie look, and this was just how it was with large sticks, so I installed brand new alliant power ac code 160/0s. It does have zero miles on it, just driveway idling so it does not idle that great. But I also didn't want to smoke a piston if it was leaking fuel with the smoke.
I've tried running it on stock SD tunes/no chip, and also on the 238/80 tuning on stock/daily setting and it seems to do the same thing. Granted I know it would be better to have stage 1 tuning, but in my mind 238/80 tuning is gonna call for x pulsewidth will only be so much fuel allowed by the sticks.


Should I get a custom stage 1 tune, before I worry about this more? Or should a daily setting on hydra chip work?

I've been thinking the only other thing it could perhaps be is a leaking turbo, or valve seals/guides leaking allowing oil into the cylinders. Kinda at my wits end with this thing.
 

6.0 Tech

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Purchased a truck a 99 superduty number of years ago with 238 or 250/80s, with t4, smith bros push rods and comp cams 910 springs, and arp headstuds.

It hazed at startup, until eot reached 160 then it quit. It stinks like fuel.

I tried 3 different tuners customer tuners on chips I got with the truck.

I pulled the sticks and had them flowtested, about 5 years ago, they passed. Also disconnected each injector and it made no difference to the smoke. I've pulled off the downpipe back then and it looked try/no oil.

I've ran a Ford spec blowby test using the special tool and it passes. I've also compression tested it twice with 2 different gauges, it looked good north of 400psi. Checked fuel pressure twice, once with in cab, and one with underhood manual gauge.

Idles pretty good.

Unplugged MAT no change. Can't remember if I verified EOT or not, but I'm thinking if that sensor was bad it would messup fueling according to a read of the shop manual.

I do seem to think I may have an oil consumption problem. Maybe a quart or so in like 3k miles.

Recently decided I didn't like the hooptie look, and this was just how it was with large sticks, so I installed brand new alliant power ac code 160/0s. It does have zero miles on it, just driveway idling so it does not idle that great. But I also didn't want to smoke a piston if it was leaking fuel with the smoke.
I've tried running it on stock SD tunes/no chip, and also on the 238/80 tuning on stock/daily setting and it seems to do the same thing. Granted I know it would be better to have stage 1 tuning, but in my mind 238/80 tuning is gonna call for x pulsewidth will only be so much fuel allowed by the sticks.


Should I get a custom stage 1 tune, before I worry about this more? Or should a daily setting on hydra chip work?

I've been thinking the only other thing it could perhaps be is a leaking turbo, or valve seals/guides leaking allowing oil into the cylinders. Kinda at my wits end with this thing.

Getting proper tuning for the injectors is a good spot to start.

Are you sure it’s got stock pistons in it, and not some delipped or fly cut ones?


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glovemeister

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Getting proper tuning for the injectors is a good spot to start.

Are you sure it’s got stock pistons in it, and not some delipped or fly cut ones?


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Thanks for the reply. I will do that. I guess my rationale for thinking it isn't tuning, is that given the 250/80s did the same thing.

I am not certain of that fact, but it was never mentioned as having been done by the previous owner I bought the truck from. Is there a reason that would be important?
 

6.0 Tech

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Thanks for the reply. I will do that. I guess my rationale for thinking it isn't tuning, is that given the 250/80s did the same thing.

I am not certain of that fact, but it was never mentioned as having been done by the previous owner I bought the truck from. Is there a reason that would be important?

Cut pistons lower the compression ratio, and it will haze more at idle, especially when cold. I’ve got cut pistons in my truck, and when it’s cold here for Az, like 30-40 degrees, it looks like the streets on fire until it gets up to temp. The fact that it smells like fuel also leans toward it being compression related, as diesel needs heat to fire the fuel, lower compression equals less heat. And now that I said that, double check the glow plug system and make sure it’s working properly. Ohms should be 1 or less for each glow plug, and if you have a relay, should be relatively no voltage drop across it when it’s actuated, like probably less than .2v drop


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DEEZUZ

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I wonder if you would catch modified pistons with a compression test. He said he took one and numbers were above 400 psi iirc.
 

DEEZUZ

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Are you opposed to sending them in to be flow tested?
 

glovemeister

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Cut pistons lower the compression ratio, and it will haze more at idle, especially when cold. I’ve got cut pistons in my truck, and when it’s cold here for Az, like 30-40 degrees, it looks like the streets on fire until it gets up to temp. The fact that it smells like fuel also leans toward it being compression related, as diesel needs heat to fire the fuel, lower compression equals less heat. And now that I said that, double check the glow plug system and make sure it’s working properly. Ohms should be 1 or less for each glow plug, and if you have a relay, should be relatively no voltage drop across it when it’s actuated, like probably less than .2v drop


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Thanks for that info. I have 100% brand new Beru GPS, I installed them with the sticks this time. The relay is older, but it is stancor.
 

glovemeister

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I wonder if you would catch modified pistons with a compression test. He said he took one and numbers were above 400 psi iirc.
Yes, I ran it twice or three times with two different gauges, because I was not expecting to see good compression. One gauge is an OTC/Ashcroft, the other a HF. I will say I just pulled the GP, and installed the gauge which I guess could have had oil contamination onto my results...

With OTC gauge lowest cylinder was 395, highest was around 440ish.

With HF gauge, it was around 150ish 1st crank on each cylinder, and maxing between 410-450ish. I will say I did double stack check valves, ie my tester has one and my gauge set has one.

I ran a factory spec blowby/cylinder pressure test and it also passed that.
 

glovemeister

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Are you opposed to sending them in to be flow tested?
I'm not opposed to it but they are 100% new not reman Alliant Power 160/0s. I did send in the hybrids for flow, back when I got the truck, they found a bad nozzle and I still kind of had this issue.

I'm going to do a running compression test, and disconnect each injector again. I will post up the results when done.
 
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glovemeister

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Just got back from doing a running compression test. Ran on stock split tuning. Pulled gps, then spun it over about 5-6 times to get oil out of each cylinder 1 at a time before I put in compression test adapter. No change to smoke really at idle, with any of the sticks unplugged.

Running compression varied from 500-540. Across all 8.
 

Powerstroke Cowboy

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I'm not opposed to it but they are 100% new not reman Alliant Power 160/0s. I did send in the hybrids for flow, back when I got the truck, they found a bad nozzle and I still kind of had this issue.

I'm going to do a running compression test, and disconnect each injector again. I will post up the results when done.
100% new have been known to have problems.

I've heard of some 160/00 not even hitting 100cc on a test stand. There's a shop in western MT that flows and fixes all the new injectors they buy in.
 

glovemeister

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So to followup, I bought this truck closer to 10 years ago. It showed up with 250/80s, and a t4. I was super excited to get it, but it would constantly haze white once it showed up. Bought it sight unseen, but bought it from a reputable poster on another forum. I had a shop pull and change the 250/80s when I got it. I had them flow tested by a different famous shop than who they were from, bad nozzle was found. Had the shop do a compression, they said it was good but never provided results so I kind of doubted they did one.
Tried an injector cutout test, new oil and filters. Tore turbo off to check for oil in exhaust. Tried 3 different sets of custom tunes which came with the truck, and were supposedly for the PCM/injector size. I had one tuner do a custom tune for the 250/80s, after describing my issue, no change. The guy I bought it from always said tuning sucked, but I found that hard to believe since they came from the big 3 guys back in the 2010s supposedly.

They never made a change. Tried it on stock tuning. It would constantly haze/smoke whitish until 160-180ish eot then it would be perfect. I did a Ford spec blowby test, with a magnehelic gauge it passed. Replaced glow plug relay, and glow plugs.
Kind of lived with it. Never had any kind of miss, or runability problems.

It sat for a half a year, while I was dealing with other issues (windshield leak on fuse block which was corroded, and rear cab vents).Started trying to drive it again, and it would smoke out for 20-30 minutes. I expected to find low compression, Tried compression testing it with 2 different gauges( one expensive, one cheap) because I didn't believe the good results. Tried a cutout test again, and no change. I kind of expected I had some kind of turbo seal, or valve leak. Recently decided I would drop down to brand new 160/0s, and it did the same smoking thing as it was doing with the hybrids, on stock, or the hybrid tuning.

I took it out for a rip the other day, I let it idle up to 150 eot, then took it on side streets for about 20 minutes. It hazed enough I was embarrassed, for more than 30 miles. I decided it would either come back fixed or broke real bad and I would either get a new engine, or a cummins swap. Got it up to 180+ eot and it was still doing it. Then like magic it started to fade away as I drove. Took it for more than 150 miles, and it was perfect for at least half of it. Remembered how much fun it was to drive a 7.3.

Following all this, I decided I would buy a hydra from Tony Wildman with tunes for this size injector, and PCM code. .I installed it today and fired it up on the daily setting. Basically 0 smoke, very light haze I consider normal for a diesel of this mileage, on a cold start. The engine sounded way different than it ever did on any of the other chips, even with hybrids installed.

So I hate it say it, but I think the 250/80s were ok and the tuning I had was bad somehow.
I've not road tested it yet, but if this comes up in search results for anyone in the future. Please check your tuning 1st thing, and try a modern custom tune you know to be correct. I spent probably a few hundred hours on this issue, over the last few years and could never solve it.

Thanks to everyone who helped me on this! I'll post up after my road test, but the truck is also getting a new s363 in the coming days.
 

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