Might go back compound?

[kdogg85]

My wife has been rockin' the single s475 for a while and it has been great. Doesn't really need any special instruction to drive other than don't tow.

She asked about going back to a compound setup and was looking at a s366 over something. What would be a good primary and injector combo? Could a set of 200's and a s491 or could that be stepped up to the 500 series? I would think the secondary would be to small to close the gap in where they trade off workload.

And will the dual fuelers and ADII be enough for that injector size or would we have to look into a tandem low pressure setup?

Already have all the other stuff to hold up for it? Well, except the rotating assembly.

Thanks for any advice in advance,

 

[Dzchey21]

hp goal?

i would say 100% nozzles or 200s would work well, anything over s480 would be good combo with the 66, i personally would go with a 64 and gate between stages and run a s591

 

[madman1234509]

^^ right there. The 66 is perfect, ill be running a .90 AR with my s366 to keep the spool up quick. Obviously youll need to gate around it. an S591 would be nice. Also other turbos that dont break the budget could be journal bearing garrett turbos like the 88mm gt4718 or the journal gt55. I just got quoted and ordered a gt4718 for $1700.

As for the nozzle size, they will give you a ton of room to work. The dual pumps and air dog will keep up, plenty of people run that same set up with no problems. Custom tuning will be a must for daily driving. But itll still leave tons of room to make big power on a hot tune for whatever event you may take it to. Its exactly what I want to do with my truck. Make it completely drive able so it doesnt take any special instruction to drive, and someone completely oblivious to performance applications, or diesels, or whatever can just hop in it and drive with no problems.

 

[kdogg85]

There wasn't really a hp goal, she would just like to get a good chunk of the low end back. But, it would be neat to this thing around the 900 mark or better.

Wouldn't the gap between a 364 and 591 be too big, where one let's go and the other takes over. And I was kinda figuring the 6.4 could spin a 366 pretty easily is why I asked it to be a secondary. The 500's almost look like they need compressed air to help them spin up, that's one big flippin' charger.

Also, would the secondary benefit from a billet wheel(spin up a tad quicker) and leave the primary cast? It seems lately the bat's are turning out to be a waste and perform worse than the cast's.

That's great on the fuel system, save some dough for something else.

All but the turbo, and a couple other things we got from a wrecked truck and have the block setting on a stand. I'm kinda worried about trashing the rotating assembly, or windowing the block in her truck currently, would this also be a good time to look into beefing all that up? The truck is a daily driver only, no competition use, just wouldn't want to risk it if we don't have to. We're not rich by any means, but money isn't too much of a concern.

 

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

There wasn't really a hp goal, she would just like to get a good chunk of the low end back. But, it would be neat to this thing around the 900 mark or better.

Wouldn't the gap between a 364 and 591 be too big, where one let's go and the other takes over. And I was kinda figuring the 6.4 could spin a 366 pretty easily is why I asked it to be a secondary. The 500's almost look like they need compressed air to help them spin up, that's one big flippin' charger.

Also, would the secondary benefit from a billet wheel(spin up a tad quicker) and leave the primary cast? It seems lately the bat's are turning out to be a waste and perform worse than the cast's.

That's great on the fuel system, save some dough for something else.

All but the turbo, and a couple other things we got from a wrecked truck and have the block setting on a stand. I'm kinda worried about trashing the rotating assembly, or windowing the block in her truck currently, would this also be a good time to look into beefing all that up? The truck is a daily driver only, no competition use, just wouldn't want to risk it if we don't have to. We're not rich by any means, but money isn't too much of a concern.

I have a set of non vgt compounds on my rig, and I love them. I have the 62 over 75 though, not the big snails that you are looking at. My 62 has a .9 and the 75 has a 1.30 housing, and it is gated between stages. A whole lot of fun to drive, even in a street tune. Spool up is pretty damn quick, and, for me, there are other benefits.

Both turbos can be removed, cab on, in 20-30 minutes.... with zero busted knuckles...

It sounds awesome! No muted whine, which some people love, but, Mine sounds like an older, hopped up diesel rig. Sort of like your 75 single, but, as you said, low end grunt is lost on that setup.

Mine had the Batmos in there already, so I have nothing to compare to, personally, but from what I gather, they were mostly hype... Maybe I will "upgrade" to stock wheels sometime in the near future... LOL

As far as the gap goes, it isnt like one stops, and the other assumes all duties, the atmo is always spinning, and as fuel increases, it heats up and passes through one, and into the other, so, it will be building boost, as the HP turbo does, just not as quickly... gating between the stages will get the big fan spinning quicker, and help aleviate BP on the little one... and keep your coolant from seeking the outside of your engine... LOL

If it were me, and there was an engine on a stand, I would go ahead and get it beefed up. Pushing as much fuel and air, I would look into lower compression pistons, and if you can afford them, rods.... billets are nice, but pricey... new stock rods are holding 1,000 hp... but we havent figured out for how long yet... A few vendors on here sell HD pistons, and I will be hitting them up before too long myself... plus several folks on here have sworn off factory cams forever.... Elite sells a stage 1 cam that a few guys are running, and spool up is instant, from their reports... plus a few other upgrades, valve springs, pushrods, valve seats, etc...

but, that is just me...

 

[madman1234509]

If its just a daily driver I wouldn't worry about internals. It's not like youre going to be at the 900 hp mark all the time when just cruising around. Id even go as far as saying you might be happy with a gt3788r or gt4088r (both are 63.5mm) as the high pressure its a dual ball bearing so that helps with spool up. And garretts come with billet wheels already. Then anything between 80-91mm journal bearing would suffice as the atmosphere (I say journal bearing because they are cheaper and ball bearing turbos in those sizes are 2500+). I found prices for a new s483 compR for like 1200-1300.

 

[kdogg85]

I understand the primary will always be spinning, it's just trying to make the transition as seamless as possible, I don't want the truck to take off, then fall on its face, the take off again. I have heard that has happened to some setups where the chargers were way mismatched.

Are the ball bearings as tough as the journal bearings? Don't really hear of too many street trucks using them.

I had thought about getting a cam if we were to build up the spare block. Along with main studs, and possibly a beefed up bed plate. I would kinda lean towards billet rods and more than likely see about a crank as well. I understand that much power wouldn't be used all the time. I kept the stock rotating assembly on my 6.0 and it chunked #7 out the side.

This was supposed to be a one and done deal when we put the 475 on, but you know how women are. We are just as bad though.

I can fab everything myself, and since we now have a lift, do all of the work except machining anything.

 

[Dzchey21]

There wasn't really a hp goal, she would just like to get a good chunk of the low end back. But, it would be neat to this thing around the 900 mark or better.

Wouldn't the gap between a 364 and 591 be too big, where one let's go and the other takes over. And I was kinda figuring the 6.4 could spin a 366 pretty easily is why I asked it to be a secondary. The 500's almost look like they need compressed air to help them spin up, that's one big flippin' charger.

Also, would the secondary benefit from a billet wheel(spin up a tad quicker) and leave the primary cast? It seems lately the bat's are turning out to be a waste and perform worse than the cast's.

That's great on the fuel system, save some dough for something else.

All but the turbo, and a couple other things we got from a wrecked truck and have the block setting on a stand. I'm kinda worried about trashing the rotating assembly, or windowing the block in her truck currently, would this also be a good time to look into beefing all that up? The truck is a daily driver only, no competition use, just wouldn't want to risk it if we don't have to. We're not rich by any means, but money isn't too much of a concern.

My personal set up is a 62 with an 86 mm s500 based turbine and it spools fast and super fun to drive. Makes 825 on fuel and I think it has more power in it just haven't had time to dial it in like I want to.

That being said I would run a 64 without a question plenty of dodge guys have run 62mm with s595 s that make 900 plus on fuel.

Size the little.turbo how you plan on driving 90% of the time. A 62mm will.support 500 HP on it's own. And even on a set up like mine at 20 psi cruising the big turbo is already making 5 psi

 

[Dzchey21]

If you have your gate set up right there should be no transition of HP between turbos

 

[extreme3807]

I need a woman like yours.

 

[pog]

I need a woman like yours.

and i will gladly take yours LOL

 

[extreme3807]

and i will gladly take yours LOL

lol, umm no...

 

[madman1234509]

Most would say ball bearing turbos are more durable and spool faster. To be honest this ford community is the first Ive been involved in that most run bullseye/borg warner journal bearing stuff, mostly probably just due to the simple fact that they cost 50% of a nice ball bearing garrett.

A gt4088R would be a nice option. a 63.5mm compressor and like a 76 or 77mm turbine, with like a 1.01 housing or something.

 

[kdogg85]

The 475 has a .90/87 wheel on it now. Tried a 1.0 and that sucked, BP was great though. I am guessing the gate setup would be like my 6.0 was, the up-pipe shot into the inducer on the turbine of the primary. The 5.9 is the same just very compact. Neither me nor her have ever had BB chargers, do they really spool up that much faster than the journals of the same size. And in reality, would they be of value as this is only a DD at not a competition truck?

Oh, the truck has outlaw diesels headers on it now, they are a tri-y design. Going back, would a 4-1 be better suited for this.

 

[powerlifter405]

I know the 7.3 is a different animal but the throttle response from stocker to the GTP38R on my 6spd was very noticeable.

If I up grade, I'll spend the coin on a BB. From a stand still or when cruising the throttle was so much better w/ the BB on my setup.

 

[madman1234509]

I bet if you took the same exact charger, but journal and BB youd atleast have a couple hundred rpm quicker spool up. Plus garretts come with billet wheels I believe with no special orderin, compared to the cast of a borg warner S series or basic bullseye... You get what you pay for, esp when it comes to turbos

 

[Dzchey21]

now before we get to out of control here LOL

here is how garrett turbos break down

gt4294 is a gt42 frame, with a 94 exducer on the compressor side, non ball bearing
gt4202r is a gt42 frame, with a 102 EXducer on the compressor side, the R= ball bearing
Gtx4202r is the same turbo with the new billet wheels


That being said garretts smaller turbos dont perform as well as the equivelent borg warner turbo, thats my opinion, now the new gtx turbos might change my mind on that but i havent seen enough being used yet

For your high pressure i would just run a inexpensive cast wheel'd turbo in the 62/64mm turbo, you decide on the turbine but i think a 71mm turbine would be good, with a tighter housing

on the low pressure turbo i would run a gtx4718r, should spool fast and support more than enough hp...

 

[madman1234509]

I wonder how much more a gtx wheel makes over the same turbo with the standard billet wheel they come with. gtx models are quite a bit more, and dont normally include the exhaust housing. ** I hear another debate thread!! haha jk . The only reason I am going with a journal bearing version of the (4718) garrett rather than the BB is because the journal is $1700 compared to the $2500 for the same thing but BB, with a standard wheel. It just fits my budget at the moment with everything Im trying to do, and the timeline im trying to get it done in

Anyway, I wouldnt worry about having a 62 or 64 and being to small... That being said... Ive seen people run 66mm turbos with a tighter (.90A/R) and say they spool pretty close to stock still, esp if youre going to have fuel, just be prepared to do some gate tuning in the begining. Should be a really fun truck, cant wait to hear what you decide and how much you like it. I love seeing people do their own custom stuff!!

 

[Dzchey21]

The main difference with the gtx wheels is you get more flow and better pressure ratios (p/r) which means the turbos like higher boost levels.

As singles the x wheel is great because they handle 50+ psi much better than the cast counterpart. In compounds its not as important because you splitting the load between turbos.

The price difference in turbos comes from being journal bearing, and billet wheels, the two add up quiet a bit to add a substantial final price tag

Most people would be good with a cast wheel turbo if sized right, the billet wheels basically flow what the next sized turbo would flow as a cast, so take for instance a gtx4508x will flow similar what a gt4718 cast, however in most of our cases we could benifit from a larger turbine on the atmospheric turbo anyway, so the cast 4718 is the way to go.

 

[madman1234509]

Nice explaination!!