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Message: [QUOTE="713Diesel, post: 445409, member: 7173"] I hear what you are saying black lightning. I understand that there are different set ups with different manufacturers and as I have stated before I know it is hard to just do one modification on these trucks. I will disagree with you on no two trucks are exactly the same. Give or take a very little I imagine that if you took two trucks with 50k mi on them and put the same CAI, delete straight pipe and the same tune on them the numbers would be pretty close. And I imagine even if you changed up the manufacturer of the CAI or the manufacturer of the exhaust you would still be pretty close if you kept the tune the same. I just don't think it is asking too much to get some info from the guys who are making the product on a before and after test with a list of the previous modifications on the test truck. Someone please let me know if I am out of line when asking for this information. It is the same process that I go through when purchasing anything else. I am not making this up, this actually happened the other day. A power company called me the other day and said that they could reduce my electrical bill substantially. I said OK, what is your rate. She said that she would have to check for my specific area/location but a bunch of people in my area have switched and are very happy, would you like to sign up? I said OK, what is your rate? She said well it depends on when you sign up because it changes daily and also it depends on how long of a commitment you sign for. I said OK, if I sign up today for 1 year what is your rate? She never answered my question. Point being the lady was trying to convince me that I could "upgrade" but couldn't give me any hard data. Why wouldn't we require any less in the upgrades we do on our trucks? I just can't keep from thinking that if I was going to take the time to come up with some sort of upgrade I would want to give my potential customers good info to persuade them to buy my product. I would do a before and after on the same truck on the same dyno so I can give a better description of my product other than it will significantly improve HP/TQ, give you better MPG's and better reliability. I do expect a lot from the aftermarket and let me tell you why. If I am going to drop ten grand on something (turbo's) I am going to expect a lot from it. If I am going to drop 400 bucks a tire I am going to expect a lot from it when I could easily make due with a cheaper tire. I agree with you here. I would never expect to know what I should get from the situation you described above. What I would expect is something along these lines. If you use a 300+ tune with our X you should get X results. Add our X on top of that and you can expect X results. This way you hit up two categories of folks not just one. That is why I would like to know what the previous modifications were done to the test truck. I completely understand and agree with you. Someone could come out and say that their turbo produced 900 hp on a 6.4. What they don't say is that it had dual fuelers on it. Like I said before all I what to see is the results of a before and after and let me know what kind of mods the truck had on it. In my mind it would be pretty easy. Lets say Elite, complete hypothetical situation here, comes out and says that they put their stage 1 cam in a guys truck that already had tow powers on it and had KEM's 310 tune on and nothing more. They show us a dyno graph that displays this truck making 700 hp now when it used to make 630. Customer Joe see's that and says "crap I am running a 300+ tune and I got tow powers but I am only putting down 625...... maybe Elites cam might be a good option". It wouldn't be the ideal situation I will give you that but it gives us more info than we have right now. As said before I am not trying to start a argument with anyone. I know it is hard to get good data with these trucks and nothing is ever set in stone as you have pointed out. I just wish we had some data other than "it will improve hp and tq". [/QUOTE]