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Message: [QUOTE="Corb@CorbinShipping, post: 104009, member: 2499"] the tow behind does it empty, loaded with a car, or loaded with all my household goods, like it is now. 26 foot, tandem axle, V nose, car hauler. it is only about 9,000 lbs now. 8600 i think was my weight ticket. I really just dont like towing a tag a long any more. pain in my azz. the spring packs, arent all that big. your 450 is probably way more heavy duty than mine, even with my helper springs. check them out, their shape, and way that you can adjust them to your needs, are what helps with sway. it puts reverse tension on the existing leaf spring. so, when your trailer weight shifts to (lets say) the right, and the truck would 1. have weight transfer to the right, and 2. the right spring would over load, and compress, (for instance) 2 inches, and 3. the left spring would extend, (for instance) 2 inches. so, now there is a 10 degree shift to the right, which will undoubtedly return with a healthy amount of force to the left, and push to maybe 8 degrees, then back to the right 6 degrees until it stabilizes. I am not a physicist, nor do i study springs. however, i did fairly well in my physics class, and have at least a vague understanding of force, mass, inertia, and resistance, etc.... and these are not exact figures, from studies. just an illustration to demonstrate how they help out with sway control. and when i get my dually, these will go on there as well. not that it will need them to handle the weight, just to help control sway. the reverse tension, accompanied with stronger overload springs, resist the sag on the right, containing it to 1 inch, and the reverse tension on the left spring, keeps from extending past 1 inch. so, your initial sway, is now negated to 5 degrees, with the same load, and same sharp turn, or maneuver. I linked the helwig page to my initial post. check em out. I have had them for a while, and i bought them for 240 bucks. they are more than likely more than that now, maybe 350 or so. worth it. your 450 will def take more load than mine. no doubt about it. and even with your DRWs, the springs, that are stronger than mine, sort of work against you when your load leans to one side, for what ever reason. same reasons that i wont use airbags. first, I had one explode with a load on the dually. we were way to heavy for the truck, and the airbags were a cheap way to help hold the weight. however, they only push upwards more. no load control. some people swear by them. hey, if it works for you, more power to ya. i wont touch them. check these things out, maybe pick up a set. you dont really need more spring, as you have PLENTY already. but, these will no doubt help even your big rig. also, like my OP, brake control when empty. no more nose diving. the azz end will not extend, due to the negative tension, and appear to be "bucking", and thus slamming your nose to the pavement. extremely hard braking, I still slide in level. and thanks for the well wishes on my journey. hopefully, it wont come down to luck. i prefer prior planning, and staying alert. but, if it comes down to luck, I hope to have plenty of that as well! lol! corb [/QUOTE]