Which clutches? E4OD

birdco85 · Sep 12, 2013

So I finally toasted my tranny, the hybrids did it in. Fluid is black and burnt and no overdrive. Not bad for 238,000 miles....

I don't want to get into the "get a JW or BTS" insanity, due to lack of funds. So my question is, I'm getting it locally rebuilt at a diesel transmission shop, and I was wondering what clutches I should get. They quoted getting OEM clutches and steels for all drums. I brought the idea of putting the alto red power packs and he suggested using that only in one drum. I'm not sure what all the drums do so it might be the forward or the direct. He said they would do the alto power pack in that drum. I tow with the truck and no racing. I'm wondering if I should have him just do the power packs in all drums for the extra clutches. Or just the way he suggested.

I've also read about the Borg Warner high energy clutches. They supposedly soak up more fluid than the reds?? He also said something about blue clutches (raybestos) i think. He also said only to do that in the one drum. I really hate transmissions because I don't quite understand them. So asking the guru's here for some input.

Please no "get a BTS Trans." As that won't help my situation. I'd love to but can't afford it.

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MossBack · Sep 12, 2013

My plans are to use this as a kit and build my own...

I am at about 70k on a amaco rebuild and last fall I put in a Ford REMAN TQ and a transgo shift kit... And surprisingly my trans is holding just fine to the abuse of my 180/100 And the 4k rpm second gear shifts... But I know that it will happen sooner or later so this has been the route I was planning to go...

old man dave · Sep 13, 2013

The high performance clutch discs are supposed to be thinner so they can fit more clutches in the drums. Problem is that the gear teeth in the clutch discs are also thinner than stock, not as strong and wear out faster . The stock clutch discs are thicker and so are the gear teeth. The high performance trans shops are supposed to machine the clutch drums to fit more stock thickness clutches instead of using the thinner aftermarket clutches to get more clutches into the stock dimension clutch drum.

Apparently you get what you pay for or even less.

birdco85 · Sep 13, 2013

old man dave said:
The high performance clutch discs are supposed to be thinner so they can fit more clutches in the drums. Problem is that the gear teeth in the clutch discs are also thinner than stock, not as strong and wear out faster . The stock clutch discs are thicker and so are the gear teeth. The high performance trans shops are supposed to machine the clutch drums to fit more stock thickness clutches instead of using the thinner aftermarket clutches to get more clutches into the stock dimension clutch drum.

Apparently you get what you pay for or even less.

So stick with factory thickness clutches? Any particular brand to go with?

I figured the thinner clutches and steels would be more vulnerable to heat and possibly warp.

Thanks for the replies Dave

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kyle43335 · Sep 13, 2013

rebestos stg 1 frictions, or the new gpz they have out now.

awesome clutches

birdco85 · Sep 14, 2013

I just looked at the stage 1's product sheet, they seem pretty awesome, might ask for those.

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birdco85 · Sep 17, 2013

I told them to use Borg Warner clutches. I watched them disassemble it today. Convertor cover was black from heat, forward planetary had a pinion with a shot bearing(but steel 4 pinion from previous rebuild, other 2 were still aluminum), both sprags were over heated, forward and direct clutches were black, one of the drums was terribly notched, most boost valves had abnormal wear. But other than that....haha! They were surprised I drove it there. The builder seemed like he knew his stuff, he took the time to explain what everything was too which was awesome considering he had 2 other tranny's on his bench.

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kyle43335 · Sep 18, 2013

im doing a e40d with stg 1s now. its only a 300 inline 6, but the kid beats the chit out of it through the woods, and mud holes.

birdco85 · Sep 19, 2013

I think it may have gotten hot.....

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96F350KID · Sep 21, 2013

I'm no transmission expert but Old Man Dave is correct. The "red" clutches are thinner so they can fit more in. However what I've been told by a few transmission guys is to machine the drums to fit more stock clutches. Use a 4R100 planetary set if you can. I know sonexx makes 99.99% of converters on the market that i know of so buying a super aftermarket converter for what you're doing wouldn't do anything. I'm diving into the automatics myself, I myself like manuals and that's what I've been using for years. A dual disc is cheaper IMO but my dually I'm tired of shifting.

birdco85 · Sep 21, 2013

96F350KID said:
I'm no transmission expert but Old Man Dave is correct. The "red" clutches are thinner so they can fit more in. However what I've been told by a few transmission guys is to machine the drums to fit more stock clutches. Use a 4R100 planetary set if you can. I know sonexx makes 99.99% of converters on the market that i know of so buying a super aftermarket converter for what you're doing wouldn't do anything. I'm diving into the automatics myself, I myself like manuals and that's what I've been using for years. A dual disc is cheaper IMO but my dually I'm tired of shifting.

I'm definitely not arguing with him, I trust what he says. That is why I did what I did. I know the factory uses Borg Warner in their rebuilds. So far I'm very happy with it, it shifts great and when the convertor locks it means business. If I have issues with this one then I have 3 years to keep getting it fixed, after that will be a BTS.

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Binder man · Sep 21, 2013

I used alto's, with steel planetaries, billet input, billet forward drum, and billet intermediate shaft, PI converter, and transgo shift kit.

gnxtc2 · Sep 22, 2013

old man dave said:
The high performance clutch discs are supposed to be thinner so they can fit more clutches in the drums. Problem is that the gear teeth in the clutch discs are also thinner than stock, not as strong and wear out faster . The stock clutch discs are thicker and so are the gear teeth. The high performance trans shops are supposed to machine the clutch drums to fit more stock thickness clutches instead of using the thinner aftermarket clutches to get more clutches into the stock dimension clutch drum.

Apparently you get what you pay for or even less.

Here is a pic of the clutch that came out of my Suncoast trans. I think it was an Alto. Notice the teeth.