Pistons

[Powerstroked162]

So basically you are calling Elite and Tadd a lairs. They say these are machined to different specs and are 30% stronger but you say it isn't. What is your proof? Is it cause they are the competition, you don't like them and you need to talk chit?

Erik, do yourself a favor and stop while you are ahead. Tadd is no competition of mine. Im not in business with anyone who is involved with diesel performance, PERIOD. As well, If I wanted to call somebody a liar, I would. Nowhere in here do you see me doing any such thing. I simply was told something different, as was Shane. Thats all.

 

[forcefed6.4ford]

OK. Enough of this crap.

This is about pistons. Derrick. Great post. Lets get this back on track. All I want are facts. If the piston is in fact all new and not a Ford OEM piece. Back it up. If it is 30% stronger. How was this proven? Data data data.

This propitiatory crap only goes for far. If it has been released to the public for sale. Then all the specific info should be available to validate the claims to ease the concerns of those willing to part with hard earned cash to upgrade the internals. Lets face it. If guys are willing to drop $1200-2000.00 on just pistons. There is a lot of money being spent on other mods to warrant the upgrade.

 

[bigrpowr]

OK. Enough of this crap.

This is about pistons. Derrick. Great post. Lets get this back on track. All I want are facts. If the piston is in fact all new and not a Ford OEM piece. Back it up. If it is 30% stronger. How was this proven? Data data data.

This propitiatory crap only goes for far. If it has been released to the public for sale. Then all the specific info should be available to validate the claims to ease the concerns of those willing to part with hard earned cash to upgrade the internals. Lets face it. If guys are willing to drop $1200-2000.00 on just pistons. There is a lot of money being spent on other mods to warrant the upgrade.

Yeah if Tadd wants to divulge the info he will. I just can't personally say. I hope they work better and I'm glad there is another option vs forged.

 

[jdgleason]

I have held both of these pistons in my hand. I can tell you that they are not the same piston that has been machined. They are a differently cast piston.

 

[Fast-6.0]

OK. Enough of this crap.

This is about pistons. Derrick. Great post. Lets get this back on track. All I want are facts. If the piston is in fact all new and not a Ford OEM piece. Back it up. If it is 30% stronger. How was this proven? Data data data.

This propitiatory crap only goes for far. If it has been released to the public for sale. Then all the specific info should be available to validate the claims to ease the concerns of those willing to part with hard earned cash to upgrade the internals. Lets face it. If guys are willing to drop $1200-2000.00 on just pistons. There is a lot of money being spent on other mods to warrant the upgrade.

The piston is a different casting. It was engineered for higher horsepower. There are people on this forum who are trying to act like they know more than they do, they are assuming and you know what they say when people assume.

What kind of proof do you want?

Elite is known for not so great customer service, and we dont claim to have the best customer service (even though were working on it). Elite is not known for claiming something about our product and having it not be true. When we say the turbos will make 800 hp then they will. When we say this piston is a stronger design, then it is. When we say it is not a remachined oem piston (likes others claim) then it is not. Don't believe us, then don't buy the pistons. Or believe us and get the pistons, compare them to stockers and then realize that a few people on this thread aren't as knowledgeable as they pretend to be. Nuff said!

On another note, I don't know where the 30% stronger came from? Plain and simple the piston was designed for more power and if you need new pistons why not get something engineered to be stronger? Will this piston be going into all of our motors? Yes!

 

[Matt]

What's the price of these compared to a stock set?

 

[jdgleason]

They are $1250 as compared to $1050

 

[forcefed6.4ford]

Not trying to sound like a douche. But the question hasn't really been answered. Should I rely on faith that these are indeed stronger?

 

[jdgleason]

They are a new cast, they have more meat in the right places. They were engineered for higher horsepower and higher injection pressures.

 

[derrick36]

The piston is a different casting. It was engineered for higher horsepower. There are people on this forum who are trying to act like they know more than they do, they are assuming and you know what they say when people assume.

What kind of proof do you want?

Elite is known for not so great customer service, and we dont claim to have the best customer service (even though were working on it). Elite is not known for claiming something about our product and having it not be true. When we say the turbos will make 800 hp then they will. When we say this piston is a stronger design, then it is. When we say it is not a remachined oem piston (likes others claim) then it is not. Don't believe us, then don't buy the pistons. Or believe us and get the pistons, compare them to stockers and then realize that a few people on this thread aren't as knowledgeable as they pretend to be. Nuff said!

On another note, I don't know where the 30% stronger came from? Plain and simple the piston was designed for more power and if you need new pistons why not get something engineered to be stronger? Will this piston be going into all of our motors? Yes!

I guarantee I know less than anyone on this board, so I hope you're not lumping me in with the group who "assumes" they know more.

One of the points I was trying to make earlier is that without a definitive number of when the stock pistons give out, you cannot say these are stronger. You can only say they're different. I'm sure you hope they're stronger, but if they're made out of the same material as the stockers there's no way of knowing whether they're better or worse.

One of your own employees pointed out the fact that there are stock pistons that are living just fine at 1000hp. Along with that, there are stockers or small tuned trucks(275hp or less) that have cracked pistons in the past. I don't think anyone has come up with a sure-fire recipe for why some crack and some don't.

Now you come along and tell us that these are stronger than the OEM versions. What proof do you have of that? Have you done any side-by-side testing? If so, what were the results?

If these are thought to be insurance to the OEM pistons, how do I know they're worth the extra $$$? Just because you're telling me they're machined differently?

I don't think you guys are trying to pull a fast one on the consumer by selling a product that isn't what it seems. I just think that your claim of a superior product might be a little premature without details as to why its better.

As of now they're not better and they're not worse. They're just different.

 

[bigrpowr]

I'll be more than glad to prove these when my new setup goes together next week. As well Erik Claussen has a set in his new motor. That's a start.

 

[derrick36]

I'll be more than glad to prove these when my new setup goes together next week. As well Erik Claussen has a set in his new motor. That's a start.

Key word being "start". That still doesn't change things unless you have the highest HP truck or unless you've logged the most miles in a stocker. Its just an in-between figure where OEM pistons have been living for sometime now.

Trust me, this seems like an awesome idea. But without knowing at what level or why the stock pistons crack, I think these could've been released to the consumer differently.

Educate us why to why the stockers fail. THEN tell us why these are better. THEN prove it.

To this point I haven't seen that. They only thing I've seen is that these are different and therefore they're better.

 

[Fast-6.0]

Not trying to sound like a douche. But the question hasn't really been answered. Should I rely on faith that these are indeed stronger?

How can we say they are stronger?

Just like anything that is engineered and then re-engineered. The pistons that were cracking were examined, the original design was run through stress simulation with attention paid to where the cracks are occuring. Then the design was changed to reduce these stress areas and rerun through stress simulation. After a few hundred different tries, a final design is decided upon. From there they are cast to meet the new design. I realize this is real simple but that is how it is done. They were engineered to not crack where the current pistons do. If they dont exhibit the weak stress areas of the current piston then wouldn't you agree they are stronger than the oem.

 

[derrick36]

How can we say they are stronger?

Just like anything that is engineered and then re-engineered. The pistons that were cracking were examined, the original design was run through stress simulation with attention paid to where the cracks are occuring. Then the design was changed to reduce these stress areas and rerun through stress simulation. After a few hundred different tries, a final design is decided upon. From there they are cast to meet the new design. I realize this is real simple but that is how it is done. They were engineered to not crack where the current pistons do. If they dont exhibit the weak stress areas of the current piston then wouldn't you agree they are stronger than the oem.

What is the strength of the OEM pistons? What is the definitive point where they let go? Just saying higher HP applications doesn't work. There are stock pistons in some pretty high HP applications as we speak. Didn't one member just break 1000 hp on fuel using stock pistons? How close is he to finding the limits of the OEM pistons?

 

[bigrpowr]

Dude save it. Like I said I will be a tester. And trust me I will make more power on fuel than 99.9% of people on here if things go right. I'm not saying they will last longer , but the goal is that they will, they are recasted with increased strength in mind but only putting the wood to them will give us info.

 

[derrick36]

Dude save it. Like I said I will be a tester. And trust me I will make more power on fuel than 99.9% of people on here if things go right. I'm not saying they will last longer , but the goal is that they will, they are recasted with increased strength in mind but only putting the wood to them will give us info.

Save what? What is wrong with looking for answers on a product that was just released to the consumer?

I feel like I'm being civil about things. I haven't done any name calling or said anyone was lying, nor have I said that these are an inferior product. If elite is going to sell something, they should be able to answer any and all questions about it.

Why not keep the conversation going so the rest of us can get answers. I don't think cutting off the conversation helps anyone whose interested.

I'm interested to see the results of your testing(just as much as I'm interested to see any new thing you try out, but that doesn't mean I don't have questions.

I can't just take things at face value.

 

[derrick36]

And for the record, your truck and the other truck testing these doesn't prove anything as long as there are stock pistons out there that are living with higer HP numbers and have logged more miles.

Do you see how it isn't an accurate test?

The only thing it proves is that these different pistons work in your trucks...Period.

 

[jdgleason]

What is the strength of the OEM pistons? What is the definitive point where they let go? Just saying higher HP applications doesn't work. There are stock pistons in some pretty high HP applications as we speak. Didn't one member just break 1000 hp on fuel using stock pistons? How close is he to finding the limits of the OEM pistons?

There is no definitive point. Period. And yes, you are correct, a member broke 1,000 horse on stock pistons. I dont believe they were even coated. Shone made 1158 on a stock coated piston. Rudy made huge power on a stock piston as well. Mal burnside is another truck that has made big power and had a lot of miles on a totally stock piston.

 

[bigrpowr]

Well maybe you'll be happy in a few years when somebody puts 200k on a stock engine.

Why do people coat pistons? There's no proof that the coating lasts nor any proof that it really helps. But they do it trying to be as safe as possible. Sone people want the best opportunity , and being Tadd is an engineer, I'll take his word as I don't have my own educated guess as you don't either.

 

[derrick36]

There is no definitive point. Period. And yes, you are correct, a member broke 1,000 horse on stock pistons. I dont believe they were even coated. Shone made 1158 on a stock coated piston. Rudy made huge power on a stock piston as well. Mal burnside is another truck that has made big power and had a lot of miles on a totally stock piston.

So that means that the 2 trucks that will be testing these probably aren't going to the the best representation as to why these are stronger...

Do you see what I'm getting at?

I'm sure the strength of these was tested through some sort of computer simulation program, but here we have real-world examples of the strength of the stock pistons.

How can you or anyone for that matter claim that their product is stronger without knowing the limits of whats already in place?

I understand they're machined with the intent of being stronger, but so far there hasn't been any proof, nor has there been any attempts of proving otherwise.

I feel like we keep going around in circles without getting any answers. Maybe that's because these are a brand new product and there hasn't been any testing as of yet, and maybe its because what we're being told and what is reality is two different things.

I don't know what the answer is but if you're going to throw something out there to discredit another product(OEM pistons)and make us believe that your product is the answer to a problem, maybe you should have some proof other than just saying they're stronger because we say they are.