6.0 injector stiction discussion

[Mdub707]

Well, bumping this thread up from the dead.

To date I've got ~ 2500 miles on since ARP/gaskets etc. I added the Archoil 2300 probably around 700 miles ago or so (just going off of memory), but I just don't drive the truck a ton anymore. Just wanted to post some updates and some new things I'll be trying.

First, I've been running around on a race tune for a while now. Truck seems to like it a lot, but I'm still playing it conservatively with my right foot. I still have pretty bad injector stiction first thing in the morning, and on one occasion with AE hooked up I caught a cylinder #2 contribution code, so I'm assuming this is the trouble maker. I ended up towing my camper this weekend, first time since the work. I decided to load my tow tune up, before heading to where I store my camper, just so the trans had a few minutes to try and re-learn I guess. Well, when I fired the truck up (sat all night, so engine was ambient temp) it poured smoke out. A blueish/white smoke. Literally smoked until I got in and drove away, a few blocks later it went away. I believe it did this before too (injector has probably been a problem for a while now) but ONLY on the tow tune. It's odd how it only does it on that tune. On my race tunes, no smoke. Possibly attributed to higher ICP? I should monitor both at idle. However, I don't believe it smokes on the stock tuning, but I haven't checked it in a while. Regardless, once up to temp, truck ran great, had good power and no hiccups.

I picked up 4 gallons of T6, and a filter. I'm ready to do my oil change sometime this week. I probably didn't run the Archoil 2300 for the suggested amount of time, but I don't really want to run the oil in there much longer since it just had the heads off. Probably too long on this oil, and not long enough on the archoil 2300, but whatever.

I also just received my PHP Gryphon FICM tuner. I think I'm going to try loading up a FICM tune tonight, and try another cold start in the morning with the FICM tune on to see how it compares to previous starts. (Race tune is back on since I unhooked the camper). I'm interested to see what it does. I will jot down my current FICM tune for reference. It is my understanding that all of the PHP FICM tunes have the MILD inductive heating strategy. Perhaps cold starts will be better, perhaps they wont change. Not really sure what is even on there now since I swap FICM's so often.

I'm thinking I could benefit from a few cold starts with the current oil and the new FICM programmer to see if there is a change. Then change the oil to T6 and note any changes, then add the Archoil 9100 finally. At that point, I will likely run it for a while and perhaps on the next oil change yank an injector or two and manually scrub some spool valves and see what happens.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Mike (Snake), any update on your truck? Did you end up sending in for oil analysis?

 

[Snake]

No updates to report. Just got my analysis back from the oil before the Archoil 2300 and I'm still trying to put enough miles on the truck to justify sending in a second sample. No significant change to report with the way my truck is running and I'm guessing I either haven't run the 2300 long enough or I have a problem bigger than what Archoil can fix (more than likely).

However, I'm still going to run the 2300 for a while and then buy some Archoil 9100 from Jason at G Racing. We'll see what happens.

 

[02POWERSTROKE7.3]

What about a coating like nickel boron that is used in guns? In for results as I just ordered a new set for my truck.

 

[DHFF]

Mike did you ever take that spare injector you had apart and try messing with it at all?

 

[Mdub707]

No updates to report. Just got my analysis back from the oil before the Archoil 2300 and I'm still trying to put enough miles on the truck to justify sending in a second sample. No significant change to report with the way my truck is running and I'm guessing I either haven't run the 2300 long enough or I have a problem bigger than what Archoil can fix (more than likely).

However, I'm still going to run the 2300 for a while and then buy some Archoil 9100 from Jason at G Racing. We'll see what happens.

I wouldn't expect any difference in running from just the 2300 treatment, at least not from what I'm seeing. It's merely just a "cleaner." I think maybe we had unrealistic expectations of it. Seems like it's more or less just a pre-cursor to running the 9100. I've heard great things about the 9100, so I'm interested to see what it does. I wouldn't be too discouraged about the 2300 not making a difference in running though. I've heard the oil will come out disgustingly black after the 2300 run though.

What about a coating like nickel boron that is used in guns? In for results as I just ordered a new set for my truck.

There's a good though. There's probably more than one way to skin a cat here. I'm lucky that I have the availability of a few different coating options and contacts through my place of employment, so I will be looking into this more as I get to that stage.

Mike did you ever take that spare injector you had apart and try messing with it at all?

Not yet no, so many other projects... I just keep forgetting about it. Perhaps this week I'll take a look and see if I can even locate the damn thing first. :thumbsup:



Just an update, loaded up the Atlas 40 FICM tune last night. I left work and it didn't seem to change the stiction I initially get on cold start up. My guess is that I've already got some sort of inductive heating on my current FICM, so it wouldn't change that much. That one injector shows signs of stiction until around 160* oil temp. It's not great. I will change the oil this week sometime with the T6 and go from there. I've gone from the 15w-40 rotella to the T6 52-40 rotella in the past with no discernible difference in running, so I'm tempted to just do the oil change and add the Archoil 9100 in right away.

I will say, I love the FICM tuning. Definitely can feel a difference driving the truck. I really notice it once it's locked into OD and cruising down the road, slight input gets the truck up and moving quicker. Really like it.

 

[clayton bigsby]

ive found that running a small generator in the back of my truck, is good to power my block heater all the time, so i never have cold start issues, and it also supplies 120v to the ficm. the only other fixes i've seen in my experience is a white brothers stage II jet kit. much better throttle response, and no buzzing. I suspect the issues you are having is with your fuel door though, I would swap it out with a billet one and she'll be better then new. :toast::toast:

 

[POWER-STRUCK]

ive found that running a small generator in the back of my truck, is good to power my block heater all the time, so i never have cold start issues, and it also supplies 120v to the ficm. the only other fixes i've seen in my experience is a white brothers stage II jet kit. much better throttle response, and no buzzing. I suspect the issues you are having is with your fuel door though, I would swap it out with a billet one and she'll be better then new. :toast::toast:

how's tyrone biggums, buck nasty and ashy larry doing? happen to be a chappelle fan?

 

[Snake]

Mike - I'm thinking the same thing as you regarding the 2300 and 9100. Kinda curious to see how this all plays out.

 

[Mdub707]

ive found that running a small generator in the back of my truck, is good to power my block heater all the time, so i never have cold start issues, and it also supplies 120v to the ficm. the only other fixes i've seen in my experience is a white brothers stage II jet kit. much better throttle response, and no buzzing. I suspect the issues you are having is with your fuel door though, I would swap it out with a billet one and she'll be better then new. :toast::toast:

LOL welcome to PSA buddy. :thumbsup: Glad to see you finally signed up.

how's tyrone biggums, buck nasty and ashy larry doing? happen to be a chappelle fan?

Mike - I'm thinking the same thing as you regarding the 2300 and 9100. Kinda curious to see how this all plays out.

Well, I went home last night and decided it was time to do the oil change. I had ~26xx miles on the truck since the headgaskets were done, running Rotella 15w-40. I drained and filled with Rotella T6 5w-40, and I went ahead and added the archoil 9100 this time as well. I went with 16oz. I fired the truck up and let it idle while I picked my tools up. Didn't really notice a discerniable difference right away. I took it for a spin around the lake by me, which ends up being around a 12 mile loop. Parked it for the night. Came out this morning to see how it had done. Fired the truck up... fired to life effortlessly. I can't believe how quiet and smooth it idles now. To really test it, I put it in gear and took off almost right away. Headed down the road. Truck ran butter smooth. I noticed a SLIGHT, and I mean REALLY SLIGHT skip/miss (stiction) once it got into OD and the converter locked. If I rolled into the throttle at all, it went away. It was so faint I'm even hesitant to acknowledge it. Someone who has never felt stiction issues before would be hard pressed to even notice it. I'm thinking after driving it to work and home today (another ~70 miles or so) it may go completely away.

Overall, I'm VERY satisfied with the Archoil 9100. I will report back as I continue driving it and let you know how it works once I get some miles. Rev-X always seemed to work good, but would never last the full 5k miles I go on oil changes. This already seems to make the truck run smoother, and I would buy this over Rev-X based on my results already.

I will still continue to research the cleaning of the spool valves regardless. I am hoping to get the spare injector I have in the garage here apart very soon, and I'll post pictures as I go.

 

[DHFF]

ive found that running a small generator in the back of my truck, is good to power my block heater all the time, so i never have cold start issues, and it also supplies 120v to the ficm. the only other fixes i've seen in my experience is a white brothers stage II jet kit. much better throttle response, and no buzzing. I suspect the issues you are having is with your fuel door though, I would swap it out with a billet one and she'll be better then new. :toast::toast:

Wow Greg, just wow.

 

[les-or-more]

LOL welcome to PSA buddy. :thumbsup: Glad to see you finally signed up.





Well, I went home last night and decided it was time to do the oil change. I had ~26xx miles on the truck since the headgaskets were done, running Rotella 15w-40. I drained and filled with Rotella T6 5w-40, and I went ahead and added the archoil 9100 this time as well. I went with 16oz. I fired the truck up and let it idle while I picked my tools up. Didn't really notice a discerniable difference right away. I took it for a spin around the lake by me, which ends up being around a 12 mile loop. Parked it for the night. Came out this morning to see how it had done. Fired the truck up... fired to life effortlessly. I can't believe how quiet and smooth it idles now. To really test it, I put it in gear and took off almost right away. Headed down the road. Truck ran butter smooth. I noticed a SLIGHT, and I mean REALLY SLIGHT skip/miss (stiction) once it got into OD and the converter locked. If I rolled into the throttle at all, it went away. It was so faint I'm even hesitant to acknowledge it. Someone who has never felt stiction issues before would be hard pressed to even notice it. I'm thinking after driving it to work and home today (another ~70 miles or so) it may go completely away.

Overall, I'm VERY satisfied with the Archoil 9100. I will report back as I continue driving it and let you know how it works once I get some miles. Rev-X always seemed to work good, but would never last the full 5k miles I go on oil changes. This already seems to make the truck run smoother, and I would buy this over Rev-X based on my results already.

I will still continue to research the cleaning of the spool valves regardless. I am hoping to get the spare injector I have in the garage here apart very soon, and I'll post pictures as I go.

Where did you get the Archoil from?

 

[kyle43335]

arch oil is in the same boat as hot shot secret.


it doesnt work. i have tried all the snake oils out there. the only one that produces results that i have tested, is rev x.

i had a truck with stiction, so i ordered hss. poured it in and told my customer to drive. 1 month later he still had stiction. we drained the oil, changed it, and added rev x, 1 week later stiction was gone.

 

[Snake]

Where did you get the Archoil from?

Jason at G Racing. He's a sponsor here. Great prices and awesome customer service.

 

[Snake]

arch oil is in the same boat as hot shot secret.


it doesnt work. i have tried all the snake oils out there. the only one that produces results that i have tested, is rev x.

i had a truck with stiction, so i ordered hss. poured it in and told my customer to drive. 1 month later he still had stiction. we drained the oil, changed it, and added rev x, 1 week later stiction was gone.

Did you try Archoil?

 

[01PSD]

arch oil is in the same boat as hot shot secret.


it doesnt work. i have tried all the snake oils out there. the only one that produces results that i have tested, is rev x.

i had a truck with stiction, so i ordered hss. poured it in and told my customer to drive. 1 month later he still had stiction. we drained the oil, changed it, and added rev x, 1 week later stiction was gone.

It doesnt work.. Yet it did for Mike and has for many others :shrug:

 

[jdc753]

Gonna follow this a little closer now, sure would be nice if some careful dissecting and cleaning of the spool valves could work to clean up the stiction. My father's 07 needs injectors (or cleaning if possible) in the worst way. Firing the truck up in the 70° weather and it still romps and no power for a good 10 minutes or so, we priced out injectors over the winter, but he hasn't had time to dive into such a project yet.



For my experience I have always run valvoline 15w-40 since I bought the truck in 07 with 49k on it, I have had maybe 5 oil changes with motorcraft 15w40 mixed in here and there when the valvoline wasn't on the shelf and always used motorcraft filters. I change the oil when I feel like it after 5k, usually around 7k or so on average, right now its approaching 10k and I need to get off my butt and change it.

At 92k the truck got 6 new injectors under warranty to finally fix the hard cold starts I had for the previous 2 winters, which cleared up in the summer until I tried Schaeffer's 9000 in the truck. The schaeffer's instantly stuck the injectors and all that summer the truck would be down on power and start hard even in 70° and would run rough until the oil temp got up to 130°, otherwise it ran smoother and WAY quieter with the synthetic. I changed that oil out after 1,000 miles for valvoline, and then at the end of the summer when the issue never went away it went in for injectors. The truck now has 177k on it and no stiction since the new injectors. Little rougher start in the cold with the hercules FICM tuning (just a puff of black) but not troubles starting and sure does run nice with the FICM tune.

 

[Mdub707]

Where did you get the Archoil from?

I actually ordered it from a place called KT Performance, they've treated me very well in the past. I got hooked up with them as a sponsor from another forum I was a part of. I always order from site sponsors whether here or other forums.

Jason at G Racing. He's a sponsor here. Great prices and awesome customer service.

I'm glad I found out Jason has it as well, probably order with him next time.

arch oil is in the same boat as hot shot secret.


it doesnt work. i have tried all the snake oils out there. the only one that produces results that i have tested, is rev x.

i had a truck with stiction, so i ordered hss. poured it in and told my customer to drive. 1 month later he still had stiction. we drained the oil, changed it, and added rev x, 1 week later stiction was gone.

I haven't actually tried the HSS myself, but from talking to others who have tried all three of them, the order of hierarchy seems to like this:

HSS < REVX < Archoil

So far the Archoil has worked BETTER than the rev-x I was previously using, and you can bet my injectors have only gotten worse since then, not better. Like I said though, this was just dumped in last night, I'm merely trying it out and seeing what happens. If it doesn't work for the full oil change so be it, that wasn't the point of this thread anyways. I will run this oil until it needs changing and at that point I'm thinking will be a good time to drain and yank my injectors and try hand cleaning spool valves. That was the whole point of this thread. To talk about the action of stiction and ways to prevent it or fix it. It's also worth mentioning what works for one guy, may not work for another. I wouldn't expect EVERY single person who tries Archoil to have positive results. Same way we all seem to like different tuners. I'm just posting what my findings are. If the truck starts running worse again in 1000 miles, I'll let you know. I have nothing to hide and no dog in this fight.

Gonna follow this a little closer now, sure would be nice if some careful dissecting and cleaning of the spool valves could work to clean up the stiction. My father's 07 needs injectors (or cleaning if possible) in the worst way. Firing the truck up in the 70° weather and it still romps and no power for a good 10 minutes or so, we priced out injectors over the winter, but he hasn't had time to dive into such a project yet.

For my experience I have always run valvoline 15w-40 since I bought the truck in 07 with 49k on it, I have had maybe 5 oil changes with motorcraft 15w40 mixed in here and there when the valvoline wasn't on the shelf and always used motorcraft filters. I change the oil when I feel like it after 5k, usually around 7k or so on average, right now its approaching 10k and I need to get off my butt and change it.

At 92k the truck got 6 new injectors under warranty to finally fix the hard cold starts I had for the previous 2 winters, which cleared up in the summer until I tried Schaeffer's 9000 in the truck. The schaeffer's instantly stuck the injectors and all that summer the truck would be down on power and start hard even in 70° and would run rough until the oil temp got up to 130°, otherwise it ran smoother and WAY quieter with the synthetic. I changed that oil out after 1,000 miles for valvoline, and then at the end of the summer when the issue never went away it went in for injectors. The truck now has 177k on it and no stiction since the new injectors. Little rougher start in the cold with the hercules FICM tuning (just a puff of black) but not troubles starting and sure does run nice with the FICM tune.

I will tell you, I ran Valvoline 15w-40 ONCE. I went to buy oil, saw that on sale, figured I'd try it. WORST OIL I've run to date. My truck started rough, smoked, and idled like crap. Injector stiction seemed much worse. I was running Rotella 15w-40 right before that. I didn't even make it the full 5k miles on that oil change I couldn't take it anymore, drained the Valvoline out (Premium blue) and went back with Rotella, problems went away again (or at least back to where it was before). Just thought that might be worth mentioning. I haven't tried motorcraft oil though. These trucks seem to tell you what they like and don't like.

I've heard the same thing about the Schaeffers too, seems to be mixed reviews on that honestly. Some guys swear by it, others have noticed the same thing you said.

I do have a single spare injector here that is going to be my test bench, I will pull it apart and start messing with it. I will definitely post pictures as I go. I am by no means an expert with 6.0 injectors, but if my life lessons have taught me anything, I'm not going to learn anything until I take the damn thing apart and look at it. opcorn:

 

[Lassie]

arch oil is in the same boat as hot shot secret.


it doesnt work. i have tried all the snake oils out there. the only one that produces results that i have tested, is rev x.

i had a truck with stiction, so i ordered hss. poured it in and told my customer to drive. 1 month later he still had stiction. we drained the oil, changed it, and added rev x, 1 week later stiction was gone.

And it will be back very soon....

Rev-x is a very temporary fix....and a possible damaging one. Any of these additives may be. Put the rev-x in one of the clear cased gear oil display cases and watch watch happens...The gears will repel oil sticking that tries to stick in the gear mesh!

Injectors with stiction run well on old oil and oil with rev-x, because viscoscity is much lower. Think about your bearings and turbo and the things that need the lubricity of the oil. "Stiction" is the suction effect the spool valve has with viscous oil.....Of course, if you lower the viscosity, you reduce stiction......but at the cost of other components, especially on startup.

If an answer is out there, I think it needs to be one that leaves the oil alone. Modifying the spool valve is proven by industrial hydraulics as a viable answer on larger spools. Grooves cut in the spool valve to break the suction is a likely solution IMO, if someone has the nads to try it. Just obviously dont open a channel all the way to the coils.

I will gladly be the guinea pig if stiction returns to my own truck. I applaud and appreciate you guys for trying these things and reporting back the info. I'm not trying to discourage you by any means, it just should be known that Rev-x actually could be damaging.

 

[Mdub707]

And it will be back very soon....

Rev-x is a very temporary fix....and a possible damaging one. Any of these additives may be. Put the rev-x in one of the clear cased gear oil display cases and watch watch happens...The gears will repel oil sticking that tries to stick in the gear mesh!

Injectors with stiction run well on old oil and oil with rev-x, because viscoscity is much lower. Think about your bearings and turbo and the things that need the lubricity of the oil. "Stiction" is the suction effect the spool valve has with viscous oil.....Of course, if you lower the viscosity, you reduce stiction......but at the cost of other components, especially on startup.

If an answer is out there, I think it needs to be one that leaves the oil alone. Modifying the spool valve is proven by industrial hydraulics as a viable answer on larger spools. Grooves cut in the spool valve to break the suction is a likely solution IMO, if someone has the nads to try it. Just obviously dont open a channel all the way to the coils.

I will gladly be the guinea pig if stiction returns to my own truck. I applaud and appreciate you guys for trying these things and reporting back the info. I'm not trying to discourage you by any means, it just should be known that Rev-x actually could be damaging.

What exactly is it going to damage? An injector that is already junk? If that's the way you want to look at it, I can just re-phrase what I'm doing, and extending the service life of an injector already on it's way out. I don't think anyone is trying to mask that these oil additives are merely delaying the inevitable, but they're a nice option for guys who don't want to dive in and replace injectors right away.

Some do run it as preventative maintenance though. Do we have any proof that lower viscosity would damage turbo bearings or other bearings for that matter? Like anything I read about, I rarely take anything and run with it, I always have to prove it out myself. I'd love to see documentation showing how reduced oil viscosity damages those components. :thumbsup: Or we should start a new thread on it.

 

[Lassie]

arch oil is in the same boat as hot shot secret.


it doesnt work. i have tried all the snake oils out there. the only one that produces results that i have tested, is rev x.

i had a truck with stiction, so i ordered hss. poured it in and told my customer to drive. 1 month later he still had stiction. we drained the oil, changed it, and added rev x, 1 week later stiction was gone.

And it will be back very soon....

Rev-x is a very temporary fix....and a possible damaging one. Any of these additives may be. Put the rev-x in one of the clear cased gear oil display cases and watch watch happens...The gears will repel oil sticking that tries to stick in the gear mesh!

Injectors with stiction run well on old oil and oil with rev-x, because viscoscity is much lower. Think about your bearings and turbo and the things that need the lubricity of the oil. "Stiction" is the suction effect the spool valve has with viscous oil.....Of course, if you lower the viscosity, you reduce stiction......but at the cost of other components, especially on startup.

If an answer is out there, I think it needs to be one that leaves the oil alone. Modifying the spool valve is proven by industrial hydraulics as a viable answer on larger spools. Grooves cut in the spool valve to break the suction is a likely solution IMO, if someone has the nads to try it. Just obviously dont open a channel all the way to the coils.

I will gladly be the guinea pig if stiction returns to my own truck. I applaud and appreciate you guys for trying these things and reporting back the info. I'm not trying to discourage you by any means, it just should be known that Rev-x actually could be damaging.