6.4 D/D pulling truck

[duddy]

I am going to be pulling a work stock point class this upcoming year and am considering going to the local 2.6 class the year after. What I would like to know, is if I am thinking correctly for a build process, that would keep me from having to do things, multiple times from lack of planning. My goal, well for now at least, is 1000 hp about a year to two years from now, but at this point I am happy breaking 600 at the wheels consistently.

This spring I want to do the reliability and stock appearing modifications, part of the rules for this class. The big question I have, is what has the rotating assembly seen for issues other than cracked pistons. I have not seen anything on rod or crank problems from what I have read through this site.

I have seen the coated pistons, coated heads, cams, ported intake, 6.0 manifolds, up pipes. Would like to stay with the twin turbo setup for the whole time because I would like to keep the truck on the road and not be a dedicated sled puller.

I will be doing head studs and heads for sure, along with new t-stats and a new oil cooler at the minimum. I am unsure of which way to go with turbos, but since they have to be stock appearing, it will either need to be drop in billet wheels or a set of reworked stock turbos, which house bigger wheels. I am debating if I can get away with a ported intake manifold, since it is somewhat visible. I will be going with an inter-cooler of some sort and a no limit intake.

I guess my question would be what to do with the cam, followers, push rods, rockers and valve springs. Also I would be looking into a waste-gate at this time, but I have no idea at what time it is needed or how to tune it to work well.

And as far as the transmission goes, It has two years of being deleted and tuned, with 10 pulls form this summer on it. Including breaking a bunch of drive shaft parts at my last pull for the year. Could I get away with putting in a converter and holding off on the trans build until my funds return or should it be on my priority list for this springs work. I know I can offset the tranny cost by selling this transmission before I have issues with it but am unsure of what a fair price would be since I know very little about the transmission market.

Would like to get the work done by the end of april.

 

[alradco]

I can't give you any advice but I hope you do a build thread for us to follow along.

Peter

 

[sootie]

I am going to be pulling a work stock point class this upcoming year and am considering going to the local 2.6 class the year after. What I would like to know, is if I am thinking correctly for a build process, that would keep me from having to do things, multiple times from lack of planning. My goal, well for now at least, is 1000 hp about a year to two years from now, but at this point I am happy breaking 600 at the wheels consistently.

This spring I want to do the reliability and stock appearing modifications, part of the rules for this class. The big question I have, is what has the rotating assembly seen for issues other than cracked pistons. I have not seen anything on rod or crank problems from what I have read through this site.

cracking pistons is really the only bottom end issue that you will run accross at the 600-750 hp range aside from possibly cracking the block when the head studs are installed. getting closer to 1000hp the rods may have to be addressed (even then some ppl have had good luck on stockers)

I have seen the coated pistons, coated heads, cams, ported intake, 6.0 manifolds, up pipes. Would like to stay with the twin turbo setup for the whole time because I would like to keep the truck on the road and not be a dedicated sled puller.

I will be doing head studs make sure that you get a competent installer or you may be buying a block and heads i dont think there is too much out there in the way of a much improved 6.4 head for sure, along with new t-stats and a new oil cooler at the minimum. I am unsure of which way to go with turbos, but since they have to be stock appearing, it will either need to be drop in billet wheels or a set of reworked stock turbos, which house bigger wheels. there are quite a few options out there and i would not waste the time getting wheels installed. i would contact Barder Turbo and inquire about his 73/59 billet setup or try elites 76/59. the turbos you choose are a big decision and is quite costly. it really comes down to budjet. I am debating if I can get away with a ported intake manifold, a ported manifold is hardly visible and nets you more gain that you think. elite, mpd, midwest and some others have very good product. i strongly support this upgrade since it is somewhat visible. I will be going with an inter-cooler of some sort and a no limit intake. no limit FTW, get all Mikes goodies

I guess my question would be what to do with the cam, followers, push rods, rockers and valve springs. Also I would be looking into a waste-gate at this time, but I have no idea at what time it is needed or how to tune it to work well.

there are varying opinions on the cam. apparently a stock regrind will net you better midrange power. as most things there are different stages or aggressiveness of cam. same goes for pushrods and valve springs. it all depends on the power goal. i would look into 6.0 exhaust manifolds as the flow better than the 6.4 ones and get custom HD upipes (stock bellows fail regularly) with the egr provision and you can mount your wastegate there. you will need to follow the chart that comes with the wastegate to see what springs to put in and then get a regulator to control it. dialing it in is another story for much further down the road. Tial or precision make good gates.

And as far as the transmission goes, It has two years of being deleted and tuned, with 10 pulls form this summer on it. Including breaking a bunch of drive shaft parts at my last pull for the year. Could I get away with putting in a converter and holding off on the trans build until my funds return or should it be on my priority list for this springs work. I know I can offset the tranny cost by selling this transmission before I have issues with it but am unsure of what a fair price would be since I know very little about the transmission market.

putting a better converter in front of a stock trans is a ticking time bomb. all it does is take the slip that would normally be there with the stock TC and transfer it further down the line. usually it will slip the direct clutches instead. the other concern is with aggressive lockup is can shear non-billet intermediate shafts easily. for any power level above a simple intake/exhaust/race tune you will pretty much need a billet trans if you want reliability.

Would like to get the work done by the end of april.

i think you need to choose a goal and save up until you can do it all at once. one thing you have not covered here is the fuel side of the equasion. a single, stock hpfp will not nold rail pressure on anything over stock nozzles. you will need bigger nozzles and dual pump to hit 1000HP. this brings the piston question up again. make sure the pistons you choose can handle the heat. most of the items in this build will have to be bought twice if you are looking to do this build slowly (turbos, pistons, rods, fuel HP & LP,).

i have three tips for you:

do the build once, right.
serach other builds on this forum as most of your areas of concern have been addressed.
call reputable vendors on this site and get sound advice. (Morgan @ Midwest, Jared @ RCD, Elite etc)

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

I can help you out when you get ready. It all mainly comes down to budget and power goals.

I agree with the above post. It may cost more up front. But doing a whole section of the build at once will save money and time over doing it two or three times as you keep adding parts.

For instance the trans would be better to do the whole thing to a full competition trans once than buying a converter and then paying to fix the converter later after the trans puts a bunch of metal/debris through it.

The engine however stock rods hold decent power they do not like high rpms. In a sled pulling situation where your turning high rpms for 10-15 seconds straight is very stressful. Not to mention the likelihood of breaking a driveline part and over revving the engine. So do you stud it and do all that work to bend a few rods after a season or two, or do you just bite the bullet and build the engine once and not worry about it again? I know for a fact building it once will be cheaper in the end.

Either way, good luck to you and look forward to seeing it pull.

 

[farmin powerstroke]

I have to agree do it right the first time. I didn't do my trans right the first time and bit me bad. Talk to Morgan at Midwest he's doing my build for a work stock truck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Breaking Habits]

Its a pretty safe assumption that if you base your truck build off mine you should have no issue dominating pretty much any workstock class.

You will need to invest quite a bit of money into drivetrain to keep it alive. I think I've found almost every weak link

Jared

 

[duddy]

For what its worth, I have a few mods done and the truck has held up well. I have an Afe pro 5r intake, along with mike's cold side cac piping, egr coolers and dpf are for some reason my truck does not like the hot tune, never understood why tho. I also did put on a set of OUO blocks and bars this fall. I am debating the front 3 link to replace the arms. I do not really want four link since I have not had the hop issues and setting the camber on the high side should help stop that anyhow.

I have thought about dual fuelers but that is a future mod that will happen. I am trying to stay in a pulling class that its main rule is stock apearing. so dual fuelers, larger turbos, and that sort is out. Just how it is and i do not have 20,000 laying around to do the job.

I will be looking into tranny work and will hit up sled pull for options.

Do you have a link to what you have done to the truck Jared.

Like I said i would like to do this in the april time frame so side job cash and tax returns may be used as funds.

 

[sootie]

the turbos i mentioned are stock appearing.

your goal of 1000HP is not achievable with stock appearing turbos and no dual fuelers.

 

[duddy]

I understand that sir, 1000 hp is my goal next year or the year after depending on how this year goes. That will also push me to the next class of pullers, which my truck is not ready to play in that class.

 

[sootie]

I understand that sir, 1000 hp is my goal next year or the year after depending on how this year goes. That will also push me to the next class of pullers, which my truck is not ready to play in that class.

:thumbup: i'm excited to see your progress on this. the two vendors that posted in your thread you wont be disappointed with.


i wish i could do what you are planning but i couldnt afford to buy engine internals and turbos etc twice :shrug:

 

[01PSD]

Wisconsin/Illinois area has some pretty stout work stock trucks I think, so I'd keep that in mind. It's crazy the amount of power some of the work stock trucks of today are putting out. Go big or go home So you'll just be pulling work stock next season? Then 2.6 the next year or year after that?

 

[duddy]

why do i need to buy the engine internals twice, stock appearing. So you cant see inside the engine so if I do the internals now, turbos down the road aint bad. Pull and swap and sell.

I see pulling the heads and doing the bottom end as step one, step two is the externals that help performance without changing the power range of the truck, just air flow improvement. Step three is doing injectors, dual hpfp, upgraded turbos. I may take step two and split it while doing half right away and futzing with the rest during the season.

So I am not understanding why you think I will be going in twice.
I like to believe that I am a very competent wrench along with having several other otr diesel wrenches as close friends, and a few buddies that work for ford I see no Issues doing the work at a top quality level.

My group of buddies workplaces, kenworth, pete, cat, international, cummins, Inland (detroit and allison), as well as chevy and ford dealers. plus we all farm on the side, so the mechanical side we have no issues. I just hope we have a good enough supply of beer for this endeavor since only so many guys can crawl the truck at once.

The only downside, Not one of us has pushed one of our trucks this far yet. I am going to be the guinea pig and there may be four other diesels that follow suit, with the goal of 1000 ponies each.

 

[duddy]

Wisconsin/Illinois area has some pretty stout work stock trucks I think, so I'd keep that in mind. It's crazy the amount of power some of the work stock trucks of today are putting out. Go big or go home So you'll just be pulling work stock next season? Then 2.6 the next year or year after that?

That is my intent. But if the right money comes available I would pull the trigger sooner, just would need some good sponsors.

Here are the rules from last year, http://new-motorsports.com/diesel.htm.
There is a meeting on Nov 2 to make changes to the rules and I will sit thru the 2.6 class just so I have a clue about what going on. The group I pull with are mostly D/D trucks and need to be licensed and insured to be in the class. The 2.6 class is 5 dodges and 1 chev but a freind and myself are debating on getting to 6.4s in the mix.

 

[01PSD]

Dual fuelers are not allowed correct? Suppose your only option would be a modded K16, IIRC Industrial Injection has a revised version of their Dragonfire pumps available... (someone correct me if I'm wrong please.)

 

[sootie]

why do i need to buy the engine internals twice, stock appearing. So you cant see inside the engine so if I do the internals now, turbos down the road aint bad. Pull and swap and sell.

I see pulling the heads and doing the bottom end as step one, step two is the externals that help performance without changing the power range of the truck, just air flow improvement. Step three is doing injectors, dual hpfp, upgraded turbos. I may take step two and split it while doing half right away and futzing with the rest during the season.

So I am not understanding why you think I will be going in twice.
I like to believe that I am a very competent wrench along with having several other otr diesel wrenches as close friends, and a few buddies that work for ford I see no Issues doing the work at a top quality level.

My group of buddies workplaces, kenworth, pete, cat, international, cummins, Inland (detroit and allison), as well as chevy and ford dealers. plus we all farm on the side, so the mechanical side we have no issues. I just hope we have a good enough supply of beer for this endeavor since only so many guys can crawl the truck at once.

The only downside, Not one of us has pushed one of our trucks this far yet. I am going to be the guinea pig and there may be four other diesels that follow suit, with the goal of 1000 ponies each.

i see what you are getting at now. sounds good!

based on your first post i didnt realize you were going all out at first.

 

[09strokerpwr]

Can't wait to see this when your done. You will have to let me know next year where you are pulling so I can cone out and have a few int:

 

[duddy]

Looks like there will be a new class made for street class points, to get safety equipment on the trucks. Will be a meeting for rules in a few week, get to make them from scratch.