So currently i have a 2010 6.4 with a zf6. While the zf6 is nice for some things the racing side of me hates it. So im looking for options to swap to an auto. I have a full parts truck 2008 6.4 with a 5r110 in it but im not sure what would be involved in the swap. Im guessing the entire wiring harness even behind the dash and a lot more. So im thinking the more simple route would be to go with a maybe 47RH with a ratchet shifter? or 4r100?
6.4 Manual to auto swap
- Thread starter chadc
- Start date
96stacked&smoken
New member
Shame to see such a rare truck switched over.lol
BFT
Moderator
I am/was going to do this. Run a PCS
yeah i think your easiest thing would be to use your 5r and get a pcs with a harness to go with it, its not plug and play but it is much easier than doing a factory to factory swap since you do have to swap all the harness out
BFT
Moderator
You will need a the rear plate and gasket (I think a new main seal as well?), flex plate and necessary hardware, TC, drive shaft, steering column assembly from an auto, cable for tranny, gauge cluster from an auto (doubt it's necessary) and I say PCS. You can get a stock tune for the 5r and have someone tune it.
BFT
Moderator
Shouldn't be any different if you you have a tune with a stock file for the trans. I would think any if the tuners can tune it like firm shifts, converter lock,... Etc
BFT
Moderator
I want to do this as well but I also want to sell my truck, which is the only reason from holding me back
BFT
Moderator
I believe it's just the tail section but I could be wrong
Okay what if I swapped the 08 cab that had the auto with mine? Does the 08 engine wiring harness work with a 2010 truck?
Because the cab i have is actually nicer than the one on the truck, and im repainting the truck at the same time.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Because the cab i have is actually nicer than the one on the truck, and im repainting the truck at the same time.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Last edited:
AirFishAutomotive
New member
correct, we do it all the time.
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
A PCS isn't a tuner. It is the complete program. A tuner modifies some of the settings, a PCS has the entire program. Here's why I don't think it will work.
It's WAY harder to make software shift a TorqShift than a 4R100, due to the design of the two transmissions.
The 4R100 is an all non-synchronous design. This means that for each upshift all that happens is a clutch is applied. All you need to do is control the pressure to the oncoming clutch and you're all set.
The TorqShift is MUCH more complicated. The 1-2 and 5-6 shifts are the same, they are non-synchronous and all you need to do is control the pressure of the OD clutch. The other shifts are the problem.
The 2-3 is a swap shift. This is a special category of difficult shift. I believe Ford is the only trans maker in the world that still does swap shifts. Others have put swap shift transmissions in production and then replaced them within a few years. To make a swap shift the TorqShift needs to release the OD clutch to downshift the OD gearset while applying the intermediate clutch to upshift the Simpson planetary gearset. This is an upshift and a downshift occurring at the same time in the same trans. From my experience these two shifts MUST complete within 30 milliseconds of each other or it's going to feel awful. If the OD releases too soon the engine speed will flare. The amount of flare is dependent on how much sooner it completes. If it completes before the intermediate has enough capacity the trans goes back to first gear! Then it has to make a 1-3 shift. A few WOT 1-3 shifts means the trans comes out to replace the intermediate clutch. Been there, done that. If the OD releases after the intermediate comes on you end up in 4th gear (1.09:1 ratio) then downshift back to third gear (1.54:1 ratio.) Either way it's really bad.
Now if you made it though that you need to make a 3-5 shift. 4th gear is the 1.09:1 ratio that really isn't used. The 3-5 is a synchronous shift. It's timing requirements are about the same as the swap shift, but there is no downshift. To make the shift the intermediate clutch has to release while the direct clutch applies. If the intermediate releases too soon you get an engine speed flare. If the intermediate releases too late you get a tie up. A tie up is when all three pieces of the planetary gear set are held from turning. This means the output shaft of the trans STOPS. That's not a pleasant thing to have happen when you're at WOT making a 3-5 shift. You can lock the wheels on an upshift! I've done this, too. You can also break expen$ive parts doing a tie up. Been there, done that, too.
Now start thinking of the combination shifts that can happen. How about cruising at 55 MPH behind some slow poke on a two lane road? A passing zone opens and you floor it. Now you may want to go from 6th to 3rd gear. You need to release both the overdrive and direct clutches and apply the intermediate. That's a synchronous shift in reverse.
As you can see from just these few examples it isn't a trivial task to make one of these transmissions shift. It's what I did at Ford for quite a few years, three of them working on the TorqShift. I'd be really surprised if anyone makes a controller for the TorqShift that works really well. I think someone could make one that does some basic shifting, but getting one so that it shifts at least as well as a stock trans is going to be a HUGE task.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Plans have changed... The donor truck I have with the auto is going to become a single cab short bed drag truck. Build thread will be showing up shortly...
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
What was the reasoning behind doing the swap shift? Obviously it is complicated so what are the benefits?
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
The benefit is that it is less expensive to manufacture. The gearset to make a "true" five speed costs a lot more to make than the two speed and three speed in this trans.
powerstroked08
Active member
Is there any strength benefit? I only ask because these transmissions take a lot more abuse than the others out there do in stock form.
