Anyone broke a BTS 5r?

[Mike@MPD]

If I had the money it would be the built 4r. I love the way it shifts and locks up and it has held a hell of alot of power with minimal breakage.

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[Charles]

You talking about BTS built 4r's?

Doesn't matter if it's built by NASA and designed to transmit power for the pump drive of a Saturn V rocket, if you drove it on the street every day and made decent power all the time you would eventually break it.

 

[tensixniner]

Doesn't matter if it's built by NASA and designed to transmit power for the pump drive of a Saturn V rocket, if you drove it on the street every day and made decent power all the time you would eventually break it.

The same can be said of any part on the truck, OE or aftermarket.

Can you be more specific about what you don't like in the 4R100? Either as a whole or individual parts?

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

Doesn't matter if it's built by NASA and designed to transmit power for the pump drive of a Saturn V rocket, if you drove it on the street every day and made decent power all the time you would eventually break it.

Thanks Charles.

If you want all out strength and fast shifting there is adapters to put a full billet comp 48re in. No pcs required.

I just don't see going through all the trouble to swap to a 4r unless your racing it. Yeah we all know it shifts faster because of a less complicated shift sequence.

But there's no reason why a good built 5r that has good trans tuning wouldn't be reliable to the same power level as a 4r in a daily driver.

 

[Mike@MPD]

Broke a fully built 48 in about 4 passes

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[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

A lenco will hold like 4k Hp and shift quick. Not a good reason to use one in a daily driver. I think someone should stack a 3 planetary lenco together behind a 6.4 and drive it on the street. See how that goes.







To the op you need to do whatever you want to your truck. I'm not trying to be a dick. Just want to point out that for 99% of 6.4 owners a built 5r is ok. If you are a 1 percent'r, my hats off to you.

Please have a build thread with results on it so we can all see how it ends up for you. Best of luck with your truck.

 

[Charles]

The same can be said of any part on the truck, OE or aftermarket.

Can you be more specific about what you don't like in the 4R100? Either as a whole or individual parts?

The 4R is a fine trans. People just need to realize that if you put decent power down everywhere you go, you will break it, as it's made by mortal men, from materials here on planet earth. Unless the guy that put it together happened to be named Jesus, and whipped up some strange looking metals from thin air... it ain't indestructible, it's very destructible, even with the best intentions.

 

[Charles]

A lenco will hold like 4k Hp and shift quick. Not a good reason to use one in a daily driver. I think someone should stack a 3 planetary lenco together behind a 6.4 and drive it on the street. See how that goes.

I would have already done it if you could do OD, and actually had cooling. I even thought about having a stand-alone coolant pump to circulate fluid through the sets, but still couldn't come up with an OD. You can't run one backward for OD because of the one-way clutch. I already asked....

Nevermind trying to come up with a lockup converter drive. A non-lockup bruno would suck balls behind a diesel.


On edit:

I should add that you could technically run one backward in the "engaged" mode, but if you ever disengaged it for direct drive while being run in reverse it would get ugly, real, real fast. So not being able to "shift" it into OD is what made it a non-option when I was looking into it.

 

[sly1types]

I would say a 4r. Done and done

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

I would have already done it if you could do OD, and actually had cooling. I even thought about having a stand-alone coolant pump to circulate fluid through the sets, but still couldn't come up with an OD. You can't run one backward for OD because of the one-way clutch. I already asked....

Nevermind trying to come up with a lockup converter drive. A non-lockup bruno would suck balls behind a diesel.

If a gear vendor could hold its weight in power then you might be able to......but they suck too. And if going with a trans like that, then why not a crowerglide weighted to the stall you want. Would be fun for a little while. Till the planetaries start taking shi**s.

It would be the fastest thing around lol.

 

[Charles]

If a gear vendor could hold its weight in power then you might be able to......but they suck too. And if going with a trans like that, then why not a crowerglide weighted to the stall you want. Would be fun for a little while. Till the planetaries start taking shi**s.

It would be the fastest thing around lol.

Yeah, the gear vendors isn't even close on torque capacity. The crower I also looked into. Talked to those guys too. If you kept a foot clutch it would be doable from the standpoint of the clutch, but still never as capable on the street as a torque converter.

A 4R100 "drive", like a bruno, but using a 4R pump, converter and bellhousing, with lenco planetaries off the back would be nice if you could upsize the input shaft diameter and work out a stout OD.

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

Yeah, the gear vendors isn't even close on torque capacity. The crower I also looked into. Talked to those guys too. If you kept a foot clutch it would be doable from the standpoint of the clutch, but still never as capable on the street as a torque converter.

A 4R100 "drive", like a bruno, but using a 4R pump, converter and bellhousing, with lenco planetaries off the back would be nice if you could upsize the input shaft diameter and work out a stout OD.

I've often wondered if you dropped the need for od and lockup what a th400 would be like in the 1/8 behind about 2000 ft-lb. but I doubt it would hold the torque. Although I know one that handles 2700hp worth of blown bbc.


If someone could only come up with a modular power shift trans with changeable bell housings, 3spd plus OD and 14" lockup. Run it all full manual shift and lockup with the ability to take 2000 ft-lb input reliably.........

 

[Chris]

Thanks Charles.

But there's no reason why a good built 5r that has good trans tuning wouldn't be reliable to the same power level as a 4r in a daily driver.

yes...there are. In my opinion its the daily driving the higher hp built 5rs that kills them rather than the drag racing. Weve tuned stock 5rs to hold 750hp for a while. and weve had 570-600 horse trucks eat built 5rs like candy no matter what we do with tuning. There is a variable about the 5r that noone has found. Maybe its something in the case, and maybe theres a big variance in the solenoids or solenoid packs. This issue weve ran across as a shop that installs what they sell, is its hard to recommend a built 5r when you know 3 or 4 out of 10 will eat up clutches every year. I have no doubt well make more progress with the 5r, but until we do we are working with Brian at BTS to streamline the 4r swap to be a more viable option.

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

yes...there are. In my opinion its the daily driving the higher hp built 5rs that kills them rather than the drag racing. Weve tuned stock 5rs to hold 750hp for a while. and weve had 570-600 horse trucks eat built 5rs like candy no matter what we do with tuning. There is a variable about the 5r that noone has found. Maybe its something in the case, and maybe theres a big variance in the solenoids or solenoid packs. This issue weve ran across as a shop that installs what they sell, is its hard to recommend a built 5r when you know 3 or 4 out of 10 will eat up clutches every year. I have no doubt well make more progress with the 5r, but until we do we are working with Brian at BTS to streamline the 4r swap to be a more viable option.

If you burning up clutches at that much of a failure rate then I think you have an issue. I have not have issues with built 5r trans coming back when built and tuned right. At least at my shop anyway. Gearhead tunes are what I've had the best luck with so far.

Take it all fwiw but a stock fueled 6.4 IMO should not have issues with a built 5r. Unless you absolutely drive with the intent of killing your trans. Or the trans is not built capable enough to begin with. And in either case tuning is totally dependent too.

But if you drive like a moron, don't have a good built trans or good tunes in the pcs then guess what......that 4r will be just as helpless.

Give me a 4r behind and 800hp 6.4 and I bet I can break it with one week of my driving. Anyone can be a jack***. Doesn't mean it is the trans fault.

 

[Rubenk]

Damn guys, thanks for all the input!!

As soon as I decide one way or the other I get convinced other wise.

I dont drive intentionally stupid trying to break a transmission, but I do love the loud-pedal! I dont want to be afraid of boost launching or going WOT for an on-ramp and ****ting my transmission out.

 

[BFT]

I really don't think 4r should even be considered on a stock fuel build..especially if he's told you and will stand behind the 5r... If anything swap the 6sp granny in not back to a 4!!

Serious tho... Stock fuel, I would worry.

Why would a 4r not be recommended with people on stock fuel systems?

 

[Powerstroked162]

Thanks Charles.

If you want all out strength and fast shifting there is adapters to put a full billet comp 48re in. No pcs required.

I just don't see going through all the trouble to swap to a 4r unless your racing it. Yeah we all know it shifts faster because of a less complicated shift sequence.

But there's no reason why a good built 5r that has good trans tuning wouldn't be reliable to the same power level as a 4r in a daily driver.

LOL

What trouble is it to swap a 4r? Splice a few wires, velcro the brainbox down, install a few bolts, fill with fluid, load a tune, BAM you're done.

.

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

LOL

What trouble is it to swap a 4r? Splice a few wires, velcro the brainbox down, install a few bolts, fill with fluid, load a tune, BAM you're done.

.

None. If that's what you want. I just don't see it as the real answer to daily driver trucks. But everyone has their own opinion...... you know how the saying goes.

 

[BFT]

How does a full billet comp 48re compare to running a 4r?

 

[MINK]

How does a full billet comp 48re compare to running a 4r?

Only one I've really heard of was a Suncoast unit on MPDs crew cab and it didnt last, although IMO there is much stronger 48s out there than a Suncoast unit.