At A Crossroad with My Setup

03cody · Jun 14, 2016

Currently running a set of Elite 190/75 injectors, atlas 40 FICM tune, with a KC stage 2 Turbo. All the suppporting mods to go with them. No limit intake, 4" exhaust, Marty's fuel system, regulated return, and I even have a ported intake that I have yet to install.

I run Ge^rhead tuning currently but have also tried warren, and WPE. I was planning on trying a few other tuners but this truck just seems like it hazes all the time. Cruising down the highway it has a slight haze, at takeoff from a dead stop it smokes, etc etc. It does clean up the injectors up top pretty well though.

I love this setup becasue it just flat out runs like a raped ape. Its just a little on the smokey side for me.

I know I don't have any boost leaks or any exhaust leaks. I have had the tunes revised a few times as well. I thought about a live tune to see if that would change anything but I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference.

What I'm thinking about doing is changing my setup with either a set of 30% nozzles or a non vgt turbo. Even thought about doing a kc stage 3 but I think id rather have a t4 setup instead of a huge vgt.

Im looking to find a setup that is clean running throughout the whole rpm range, can tow around 10-12,000 lbs from time to time, and is between 5-600 hps. I know its asking a lot.

What are your guys's opinions? I was looking into getting a 362 or 364 but I think it may be cheaper to just get a set of smaller nozzles put on the injectors.

scparrish · Jun 14, 2016

Going to 30% nozzles is going to be the way to fix that haze. Going to a non vgt will only exaggerate it farther.

Towerguy · Jun 14, 2016

Are you running PHP's standard FICM tuning? Or do you have their tuning for larger nozzles?

6.0 Tech · Jun 14, 2016

I have run 30%s on 190&205 with charlies stage 2 and 3. Well i guess the 205s were only with the 3. Anywho, the 190s and a stage 2 were awesome street wise, ran mid 12s on the track, and towed with no issue. The 2 cleaned them up completely on a street tune, but it obviously did have a bit of smoke when getting on it hard til the turbo lit. The 190s with yhe 3 were great as well. The 3 does take a while to spool, but its actually not too bad. I would compare it like going from a stock 13 blade to a 10 blade difference, as far as feel goes. If you went directly from a 13 blade to a stage 3, i can almost guarantee you wouldnt be happy, but going from a 2 to a 3, its manageable, and quite fun! I towed on this as well, but my tow tune that i had doubled as an emissions tune, and it ran kinda hot. I got a tsd tow tune from charlie, as he has a video of it only pulling like 1175-1200 with a stage 3 and 205s, but have yet to tow with it.

I agree with scparrish, in that a non vgt is going to worsen the issue you are having, as you will most likely be under the turbo more daily driving it than it will be spoole to clean it up.

A tune that locks out o/d with tow haul will be your friend with the stage 3 as well.

My trailer is a 38ft fifth wheel toy hauler that weighs about 15k.

Hope this helps some

TyCorr · Jun 14, 2016

Anybody think the ficm tune might be contributing? Isnt that ficm increasing pw and at lower rpm/boost/speed operation its injecting fuel inside and outside the optimal spot for a clean burn?

I read for three hours the other night about tuning 6l as Im thinking about buying tuning software from php. You cant tune your own ficm and I wasnt saying that but rather that with it being tuned its doing things in addition to what your ecm program is calling for.

6.0 Tech · Jun 14, 2016

It is possible, and i forgot i had an issue, only at wot, with my ficm tuner. I have the idp tuner. This was only an issue with the stage 2 though and 190s, and was prior to the final revision from idp that cleaned it up to a more acceptable level. Still wasnt 100% clean with the ficm tune installed, but once i took it out, it ran very clean. I am running the same tune on the stage 3 with the ficm tuner on now, and it runs pretty clean atwot. The smoke output is about the same as a stock fuel/air truck on a hot street tune at wot.

However, it has never hazed all the time as the op was saying. The first tune i got from idp with yhe ficm tuner on would black out an entire on ramp.

03cody · Jun 14, 2016

Towerguy said:
Are you running PHP's standard FICM tuning? Or do you have their tuning for larger nozzles?

It is just their standard tuning. I was unware that they tuned the FICM's according to nozzles. I guess it would make sense to do so. Maybe I should give them a call.

I really love the way this setup drives, I just feel like a douche when I'm cruising down the highway and I can see it haze ever so slightly.

Towerguy · Jun 14, 2016

That's what I was wondering. PHP offers FICM tunes in 2 versions. The first is intended for small nozzle injectors, stock to about 30 percent. The second is for large nozzle injectors, over 30 percent. I've seen a few people with larger nozzles that ran the large nozzle FICM tunes report back how much they helped reduce smoke output.

03cody · Jun 14, 2016

TyCorr said:
Anybody think the ficm tune might be contributing? Isnt that ficm increasing pw and at lower rpm/boost/speed operation its injecting fuel inside and outside the optimal spot for a clean burn?

I read for three hours the other night about tuning 6l as Im thinking about buying tuning software from php. You cant tune your own ficm and I wasnt saying that but rather that with it being tuned its doing things in addition to what your ecm program is calling for.

I have thought that maybe the FICM tune would be making it do this. I remember when I put the new FICM on when it had stock injectors and I was amazed at how much more fuel it could throw at it so maybe I should try to pull the tune off.

That's what I was wondering. PHP offers FICM tunes in 2 versions. The first is intended for small nozzle injectors, stock to about 30 percent. The second is for large nozzle injectors, over 30 percent. I've seen a few people with larger nozzles that ran the large nozzle FICM tunes report back how much they helped reduce smoke output.

This is awesome news. I had no idea. I may give them a call tomorrow. I don't even mind losing a little power if I have to take the tune off completely to clean it all up down low. Guess I just need to see what they will say.

I have run 30%s on 190&205 with charlies stage 2 and 3. Well i guess the 205s were only with the 3. Anywho, the 190s and a stage 2 were awesome street wise, ran mid 12s on the track, and towed with no issue. The 2 cleaned them up completely on a street tune, but it obviously did have a bit of smoke when getting on it hard til the turbo lit. The 190s with yhe 3 were great as well. The 3 does take a while to spool, but its actually not too bad. I would compare it like going from a stock 13 blade to a 10 blade difference, as far as feel goes. If you went directly from a 13 blade to a stage 3, i can almost guarantee you wouldnt be happy, but going from a 2 to a 3, its manageable, and quite fun! I towed on this as well, but my tow tune that i had doubled as an emissions tune, and it ran kinda hot. I got a tsd tow tune from charlie, as he has a video of it only pulling like 1175-1200 with a stage 3 and 205s, but have yet to tow with it.

I agree with scparrish, in that a non vgt is going to worsen the issue you are having, as you will most likely be under the turbo more daily driving it than it will be spool to clean it up.

A tune that locks out o/d with tow haul will be your friend with the stage 3 as well.

My trailer is a 38ft fifth wheel toy hauler that weighs about 15k.

Hope this helps some

This does help me. I think I'm gonna try talking to PHP tomorrow and see what they say. May try pulling the tune off the FICM or having it rewritten for big nozzles and see what it does. I may still end up going with 30's. As far as I'm concerened, the cooler the EGT's the better.

Towerguy · Jun 15, 2016

Do you have their FICM tuner or did you have yours bench flashed?

03cody · Jun 15, 2016

Towerguy said:
Do you have their FICM tuner or did you have yours bench flashed?

I had it bench flashed. I can buy there tuner and pull or change the tunes then... correct?

Towerguy · Jun 15, 2016

Yeah, it comes loaded with all 4 tunes. Just make sure and get the one for large nozzles.

03cody · Jun 15, 2016

good deal. Honestly, I've needed the programmer for the FICM for a while so this is just a really good excuse to get one haha.

KCTurbos · Jun 15, 2016

I agree with what everyone else has said. I would try FICM tuning first.

PHP has custom files made for larger nozzles at actually pulls fuel down low without sacrificing driveabililty and top end power.

Stock nozzle ficm tuning with larger nozzles will run hot and smokey.

Your setup should not haze all the time... something is wrong IMO. Let me know if we can help get it figured out.

03cody · Jun 15, 2016

KCTurbos said:
I agree with what everyone else has said. I would try FICM tuning first.

PHP has custom files made for larger nozzles at actually pulls fuel down low without sacrificing driveabililty and top end power.

Stock nozzle ficm tuning with larger nozzles will run hot and smokey.

Your setup should not haze all the time... something is wrong IMO. Let me know if we can help get it figured out.

If I can get the egts under 800 then it wont haze any longer. I think its just hot and smokey at the moment. I need to get in touch with PHP and I also need to quit being lazy and put that ported intake manifold on. Your turbo is amazing though, everyone who has ridden in my truck is always amazed at how wide the powerband is with it.