Blue smoke on cold start...

[JHILL]

crummy cell phone video


http://s481.beta.photobucket.com/user/JHILLSE99/media/0222130930_zps46348d41.mp4.html

 

[d7es3l]

Up in Laramie, WY when I cold start, the thing smokes a bunch with light blue smoke/grey smoke for about 5 minutes. I have Stage 1 injectors & tuning from BDP. But down in Colorado, when I cold start, it barely smokes at all! How big of an effect is altitude for this smoke problem?

 

[7.3 Cowboy]

Mine smokes a decent amount when it's under 30 it's blue with some gray and smells like fuel and will burn your eyes

 

[firehunter]

Up in Laramie, WY when I cold start, the thing smokes a bunch with light blue smoke/grey smoke for about 5 minutes. I have Stage 1 injectors & tuning from BDP. But down in Colorado, when I cold start, it barely smokes at all! How big of an effect is altitude for this smoke problem?

I wonder this as well. I live at 5,000' which I have been told is not enough elevation to cause issues but it is amazing much stronger and smoother it runs at 3,000'. It still smokes at 3,000', just not for as long of time so the EOT relationship makes sense to me.

 

[Tom S]

Up in Laramie, WY when I cold start, the thing smokes a bunch with light blue smoke/grey smoke for about 5 minutes. I have Stage 1 injectors & tuning from BDP. But down in Colorado, when I cold start, it barely smokes at all! How big of an effect is altitude for this smoke problem?

I wonder this as well. I live at 5,000' which I have been told is not enough elevation to cause issues but it is amazing much stronger and smoother it runs at 3,000'. It still smokes at 3,000', just not for as long of time so the EOT relationship makes sense to me.

I notice a difference in power on mine going Denver to Sea Level and a difference in that hazy cold star up smoke going from Denver to the Mountains.

 

[firehunter]

OK folks, I need to resurrect this thread. Even though it has been a couple of months since the last post I am still having this issue and it may be getting a little worse even though the weather is getting warmer. We might actually hit 70 degrees this week!

Here is what has happened over the last two months:

After doing a search I was able to find multiple members here that have had or still have this issue. Most of those guys have 160 - 200cc injectors with stock to 100% nozzles. All of them have different tuners. Some have changed tuners with little effect on the smoke. Others have changed injectors and had the smoke go completely away even with the same tuning!

I have had several emails back and forth with Matt about this, referred him to this thread to see golfer's comments, and he made some tuning adjustments for me to try. No joy. Same volume and color of smoke - although it is very definitely white smoke. With no SES light, ever, and adjusting tuning not making a difference it was on to check mechanical stuff.

New fuel filter, new air filter, new ICP sensor (was leaking anyway), new clutch and did bellowed up-pipes at the same time so no leaks there, new IC boots all the way around. Turbo is a new unit within the last year and it checked out today - no wiggle in the shaft, spins freely. Did a compression test on it about an hour ago...

1) 380
2) 360
3) 370
4) 365
5) 370
6) 380
7) 380
8) 365

After I figured in the correction factor for being at 5,000' elevation (as per the compression testing thread in the 7.3 tech and FAQ section) all the compression numbers were between 418 and 441psi. That is only a 5% difference between highest and lowest cylinders. I believe I can rule out compression as being "bad" and contributing to the smoke. Put a straight edge on the injectors and they are all level - just like when I installed them.

Only new observation I can think of is that it starts "differently" every time it is cold. Sometimes it cranks for a couple of seconds and fires right off, like normal. The next time it will crank longer and kind of stumble it's way into a low, muffled idle, then normalize. Next time it won't start at all so I shut off the key and try again - it has taken up to four cycles before it fired off and when it does it produces a huge cloud of white smoke then normalizes. The relative no start has happened when the engine has been up to operating temp so it's not because of the GP system.

What now? The HPOP and IPR are original 214K mile pieces. Is it time to start pointing a finger at the injectors (after 15K miles)???

 

[CSIPSD]

Chelsea's Excursion still smokes at cold start with brand new AC's (they have about 20-30k on them now)...

Once it warms it goes away, once the temps get in the 70's it goes away...

 

[firehunter]

Chelsea's Excursion still smokes at cold start with brand new AC's (they have about 20-30k on them now)...

Once it warms it goes away, once the temps get in the 70's it goes away...

Yep, same here, on all accounts.

 

[bigred13]

About 3 year's ago I got a swamps chip with a DAC3 program, that below45* would blow blue smoke till the truck warmed up then it would clean up after that

 

[2000wa250]

I believe the stock dac3 file has some serious retardation of the timing based on the SOI vs EOT timing adder. I know with my tunes with both hybrids and my new injectors, I have that table reduced by a certain percentage. Used to haze at anything under 40 degrees or oil temps under 70 degrees, once I changed it no more haze.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[firehunter]

I believe the stock dac3 file has some serious retardation of the timing based on the SOI vs EOT timing adder. I know with my tunes with both hybrids and my new injectors, I have that table reduced by a certain percentage. Used to haze at anything under 40 degrees or oil temps under 70 degrees, once I changed it no more haze.

I agree with this 100%. Matt says that only effects cranking RPM's but I pressed him for tuning changes. He obliged but the smoke continues. Even your temps seem to be in-line with the temps I see this. Unfortunately we haven't seen 70 degrees around for seven months. :fustrate:

 

[2000wa250]

Notice I said oil temps.

With minotaur, I can adjust the soi vs EOT adder, which effects things throughout the rpm range. I know there is another one also but can't remember the name off the top of my head.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[firehunter]

Notice I said oil temps.

I'm with ya' but don't do my own tuning. :shrug:

 

[JHILL]

I'm with ya' but don't do my own tuning. :shrug:

:thumbup: with my computer skills not sure i want to tackle tuning



2000wa250 Notice I said oil temps. :thumbsup:


have been thinking/saying this for a few years!

under 40* first start, won't smoke blueish till the next am

 

[nossliw]

Here is a link of my truck....

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...rk - YouTube&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13669064485903

This is all brand new injectors, brand new VC, brand new uvhc, stancor relay, brand new BERU GP, rbuilt turbo. There are a few other mods done to the truck, but I experience the exact same issue you have. Yes it smokes like a damn freight train, is embarrassing as all hell in a parking lot after sitting 18+ hours. Luckily I leave at 430 in the morning, because it will white out the entire alley in our complex...and I mean eys burning, coughing cant see **** white out.

I trouble shot the crap out of it, and can't explain it. Timing is where I stopped. Even using a DP tuner I could not correct it. Smokes just as bad in any setting or chip removed. I really think once you start modding these motors they are just not as happy as they could be stock. I have 3 EGT probes on either manifold and post turbo, Idling I have never seen over 200 on the truck in the cold...maybe 300 after 15 mins of high idle...still blowing nice white and blue. I need to buy a fogger that adds some red into the smoke for a red/white/blue effect I have 370psi on all 8 with 130k on the motor. I have noticed removing the EBPV on the OBS trucks amplifies the smoke on startup (as it should)...I have done this to all our fleet trucks.... they all smokes twice as much as before once removed. Add a straight through exhaust and open intake...its even worse, intercooler is the cherry on top to the great whiteness...

This video was stock injectors...the piston pump you can hear out the exhaust with larger injectors now is quite unreal when its cold now.

I have started the truck up to about -30 off glow plugs... and it smokes just as bad at -25 or 25...fires right up, and a couple miles down the road we are running clear...once those temps come up. I can do anything else about it that I know of. At least it starts every time, even when heater power is unavailable.

Nothing like being 30 miles out in bum fawk no where hunting and get back to the truck and she doesn't start...nada, even off jumping and cycling plugs...thats when I replaced everything...I will never do that again ;-)

Hope this helps....

 

[2000wa250]

Timing brother. You're modifier or adder table is all out of wack. Every manual I've ever been around smokes more on any start up, especially cold, than any automatic I've seen. I think its due to that extra soi adder based on EOT, probably was designed as a safety deal. My thinking is that since the transmission and shift strategies can't be altered on a manual to keep from taching the motor out while cold, or lugging it a lot, the pcm alters timing enough that there is a few degrees of timing added until 80* c (I believe this is how it works, but just my best guess). Once oil temps are up, then it goes to normal timing with no adder just the offset, and base.

Should be perfectly able to be adjusted through your tunes.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[nossliw]

Timing brother. You're modifier or adder table is all out of wack. Every manual I've ever been around smokes more on any start up, especially cold, than any automatic I've seen. I think its due to that extra soi adder based on EOT, probably was designed as a safety deal. My thinking is that since the transmission and shift strategies can't be altered on a manual to keep from taching the motor out while cold, or lugging it a lot, the pcm alters timing enough that there is a few degrees of timing added until 80* c (I believe this is how it works, but just my best guess). Once oil temps are up, then it goes to normal timing with no adder just the offset, and base.

Should be perfectly able to be adjusted through your tunes.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Not sure what your acronms stand for...but I figured Jody and DP can take care of this...just not sure if its a good idea. I'm not trying to tune my own motor out. I do not have the capability to do so. If you are saying the timing is advanced (added) till 80*C then what happens in the situation of a WOT run down the road when cold if you take it out of this safety zone... I'm not a tuner by any means, but I'm not going to tune out an entire table for cold operation temps, I guess I'll deal with the smoke unless it harms something... what do you mean by taching the motor out when cold? bouncing off the limiter? that would be fairly stupid i guess especially cold...I don't lugg my motor by any means and typically let her smoke for a minute before I pull out, and drive it like normal. I drive like a granny though, but pull extremely heavy time to time.

 

[2000wa250]

What I'm getting at is when you go to different injectors the timing adder needs to be changed. That's what got rid of the smoke for me. You don't eliminate it, you simply modify it to account for the injectors. The smoke is unburnt fuel and the table just needs minor tweaks. For me lowering it by 35% did the trick. You'll probably only need to lower it by 10-15% and it'll get rid of the smoke but still act as designed.

What I meant by taching it out is with an auto trans you can adjust shift points to account for the cold oil, trans, and motor. With a manual there is no transmission tuning, so from my understanding they did it through this soi adder. Basically makes the truck a slow turd when cold so you bring cylinder pressures down and don't hurt anything when cold. Side effect is a little extra haze when cold. Bring this table inline with your base timing table and it goes back to working like it was intended and acting stock on cold start ups.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[firehunter]

Makes sense, why don't other tuners do this? There must be a reason? :shrug:

 

[firehunter]

nossliw - thanks for chiming in. Glad to know others have the issue and are actively trying to rid themselves of it. It finally hit 70 degrees today and my truck started perfectly normally, crisp, clean, and ran so smooooooth...*sigh*