Blue smoke on cold start...

firehunter

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The map sensor isn't something I've ever messed with. Just want the other sensor so I can read higher boost. Maybe it's the culprit and all this will just go away - I keep hoping. :blitzed:

This is about the only sensor I haven't replaced and was wondering if it might be the culprit as well. The engine runs sooooo much better, smoother, quicker starts, less smoke (but still some) on a recent trip down to 3,000' elevation that I had to wonder about it. The difference is very noticeable and repeatable. The line seems to be somewhere around 4,000' where it changes.

You saved me some money because I was about to get a tune from Bill just to see the difference. Shifting in Bill's tuning is not an issue for me since I shift it whenever I please. :)
 

maplemale

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You saved me some money because I was about to get a tune from Bill just to see the difference. Shifting in Bill's tuning is not an issue for me since I shift it whenever I please. :)

Cool. Glad to hear it! :)


Bill's daily driver tune feels a little more aggressive. It's hard to describe. It's a tad bit louder at idle. You get a bit more of the diesel sound. When driving it seems like there is a little more fuel/turbo. You feel the shift in your butt for every gear. Feels like I'm giving it a little more brake when sitting at a light. Just seems tuned a little hotter over-all. I'm making kind of a snap judgement and this is all personal preference. But, I like Matt's tunes a little better when driving. I'm keeping the one from Bill though. Maybe I'll just warm up in that tune! LOL


The real test will be Friday/Saturday when it's colder out and I've replaced the MAP. Will update.
 

Swaan

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This is all good stuff!!!
I'm still banging my head against the wall too with the cold haze issue.
I'm going to be reciving some newer updated tunes from matt later today or tommorow with added timing. Not gonna get my hopes up but I'll keep u guys posted the results.
 

Lethalthreat7.3

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Ok, I have read, researched, read and researched due to the hazing issue. I was set on this being an issue due to outside temperatures and timing but I could never pinpoint the issue.
I have an electrical diagnostic background in automotive 12v and industrial equipment 24v systems as well as extensive HVAC electrical diagnostics in AC and DC systems.

This is what I found.

My truck would do all of the previous issues everyone is discussing. I seriously felt it was electrical but couldn't find it. I had #2 fail a contribution test once but could never repeat it.
I had the original 15* hpop so I suspected this. Installed a HBjr hpop but didn't have the $ to do the ipr and it didn't test bad with AE. Obviously I thought it was the IPR. I bought both the ipr and ips but hadn't installed them simply because Ive never been a "parts changer".
Before changing these I started testing the harnesses. Researching most state that they had 3.2-3.5 ohms resistance at the engine harness connector. I tested the harness cold and got the same, good right? Well I started the truck and of course it ran fairly smooth but smoked like a basterd. Shut it down and disconnected the main engine harness above the vc. All seemed to test ok but #4 now read 8.5.
Well that was enough for me. Pulled the vc to replace the harness. Tested all the injectors on that bank and they read 3.0, this told me I had found the issue. Reinstalled everything. I now read 3.0-3.2 on all the injectors thru the harness. didn't really pay attention to which read 3.2. Restarted and it ran better, idling much better. It was cold(oil temp 34*)but the smoking seemed better. Holding it at 1800 to listen once it got above 80* and I could here a cyl cutout and a slight drop on the tach, then it would go away, very quickly.
I shut the truck down and retested at the engine harness connector. The left bank all read 3.0, the same as testing at the injectors. The right bank read 6.5 on all 4. Obviously I thought this was the issue but grabbed my son to confirm I wasn't losing it. When i retested with him watching the meter I got 3.2 on all 4. Eh? Well, i changed that uvch as well. All injectors tested 3.0. New uvch and uvch connector(broke it, pos) and all 8 injectors at the engine harness connector tested 3.0, the same as at the injectors.

Started it up and it purred. Matter of fact I hadn't heard it run this smooth(other than sporadically from time to time) AND the smoking was just about gone, the engine COLD.

YAHOO!

The only other issue I had was a romp when revving then coming back down to idle or after driving then putting it in park. We installed the new IPR and IPS and this solved the "romp".

Anyway, I apologize for the length but know this is/has been an issue for many so I wanted to be detailed.

IMHO, I have found thru the years that any resistance found other than that found at the component,(injector or harness in this case), is an issue. You will be told or hear that 0.2ohms is acceptable in a harness. With over 30yrs experience, I call bull...t. I once found 0.3ohms resistance on a sensor in a CAT 777. I was a kid and the experienced mechanics told me so with one of the jackasses showing me that the manual stated anything under 0.5 meant it was ok and it was just the resistance in the harness. I know everyone has read this in diagnostic manuals.
Well, think about it from a computer stand point. The computer sends out a voltage reference signal(5vlts) to a sensor. Based on the signal return the computer accepts the information and programs accordingly. So if resistance is present in the harness this is added to the sensor's resistance that changes based on it's input. Worse yet that very slight resistance that should be negligible may change once current is passed thru it or vibration causes it to change.
Apply this to my long winded story and that slight resistance actually causes a delay in the ms pulse width.

Believe me I researched for a long time. People changing tunes, tuners, o-rings, injectors, gpr's, gp's, IAH being removed, etc but nothing explained why some don't smoke but others do.

I now can contact Gearhead to retune my chip for the HBjr and discuss Hi-Altitude as air density makes a huge difference. I learned a long time ago that when it comes to tuning automotive applications as well as HVAC cfm calculations that using the 4% rule as a base has always given the best performance. Basically from 0-2000ft the tuning is the same as sea level however once above 2000ft a 4% "derate on air density" needs to be applied. What I have found is that a 1* advance(gas motor) for every 1000' over 2000' has always been a good starting point. (Have tuned alot with HP Tuners)
Yes, computers compensate for base timing using MAP and Baro sensors however think about this. If the computer has to compensate off of base for altitude, doesn't it lose this advance on the high end? Think vacuum advance/mechanical on points or a hall effect switch.
Example: i have restored(minus paint) an '87 Jeep YJ for my wife with a carbureted 4.2l. Base timing is 10* w/7.5* vacuum advance and 3.5* mechanical(i believe that's correct). By advancing the base timing by 5* to 15*, I have compensated for my altitude giving it much better response, power and most importantly fuel economy. It got about 10.5mpg but by tuning for altitude my wife gets between 14.5 and 15 around town. Using the same principle for my G-8 on timing and injector pulse width, I advanced timing and actually shortened the inj pulse width and that car was crazy fast. I would mess with everything I could. Wife said it was like a "pissed off doberman" in sport mode. HVAC equipment set at sea level to obtain the rated 5.1amps would only pull about 3.9amps. Adjusting or changing the drive pulley would compensate to obtain the correct airflow which in HVAC systems especially vav systems, is critical.

Anyway this is my .02 from a very in depth diagnostic to find an issue that plages alot of people.

MOST IMPORTANTLY- Use a GOOD volt/ohm meter. It MUST have a 0-200 scale. The 0-2k scale is junk for in-depth detailed electrical diagnostics. I have Fieldpiece, Fluke, GreenLee and Goodman Industries Meters. The Goodman is old, was my father's(i'm 46) but is the most sensitive still.
Set it on the 0-200 scale and test the resistance in the leads, this is the base say o.1ohm. Test and when done check the leads again for the base lead resistance if it has changed figure out why, get new leads or meter. If a reading is off even 2 tenths from the reading taken at the component thru the harness or say from one injector to the next- this is the problem. Find the cause for the increased resistance and don't let anyone tell you that the resistance increase this minimal is normal in the harness. It isn't.

TEST COLD BEFORE RUNNING AND IMMEDIATELY AFTER IT IS SHUTDOWN.( if i had taken just a minute more I probably wouldn't have caught the right bank issue)

And by the way, the stupid kid that found the 0.3ohms increased resistance found a pin in one of the connectors(40-50pins) that just didn't seem right. I replaced it while those mechanics were taking a break(they wouldn't listen). Well, that Haul truck that cost the mine 300k a day to be down for those 4 days fired up. The mine maintenance superintendent came running out of his office yelling "who fixed it?". I was advanced from being a mechanics helper to electrical/hydraulic diagnostics apprentice then after proving I understood electrical/hydraulic dynamics for a month I was put in the light vehicle maintenance fleet to head up the electrical/driveability issues.

Very long winded but if it helps even one person, great.
 

ja_cain

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That's some good stuff. I need to do exactly this with my harness. I already repaired the driver side where one of the wires was rubbing on the valve cover and causing a short. Truck would just loose all power going down the road especially on a rainy day. Thanks again for posting. There are probably many instances were an individual is able to fix something and he never does a follow up post. Yours was excellent. Also, good point about having a multimeter/ohmmeter with the correct scale and making sure the leads are serviceable. I'm going to check mine when I get to work tomorrow.
 

maplemale

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:thumbup:

Very good info indeed. Thank you!


I have original UVC harnesses/gasket. Maybe I'll ad this to my todo list this weekend since they are local from Ford and I'll be stripping her down anyway. I realize I don't have a decent electrical tester... the old man is always telling me to buy a Fluke meter and ditch the $35 craftsman I've got. I never wanted to spend $100+ on a tester, but I guess maybe it's worth it.
 

Hunttman01

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Mine smokes when cold. But cleans up after a couple minuted. Smells like fuel. Read the entire thread... sounds like the intake heater is the culprit?

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TyCorr

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So people have switched their stock injectors out yet didnt replace the uvch? Let me guess, old gp's too?
 

maplemale

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So people have switched their stock injectors out yet didnt replace the uvch? Let me guess, old gp's too?


GPs are new. At $10 a piece it's a no-brainer when doing injectors. Didn't replace the UVCH because it ohm'd to spec / didn't know at the time they were so finicky. After reading Lethalthreat's post and hearing that spec omhs might mean jack, we replaced it this weekend.


Was a fun weekend with N2GN2!! Did the up-pipes, 4" exhaust, pulled injector (just to validate I didn't screw up the install and no unusual signs of wear -- looked perfect!), UVCH and a few other minor things. Keeping in mind the truck sounds 100% different / better, I will say that the idle seems much smoother. Also, the smoke starts as normal at 30 degrees, but seems to clear up almost completely within about 30 - 45 seconds! However, the EBPV seems to make it smoke again. It's a bit hard to tell because the exhaust is only half-way done and it's shooting out just past the down pipe (waiting on remaining exhaust piece.) Also waiting on the higher ICP tunes and new map sensor tune from Matt. It's pretty obvious though, the UVCH had a significant effect on the cold smoke. At only $65 a side (locally from Navistar), it's worth it and seems to = a smoother running truck all around.


Something else that's interesting. It's pretty obvious with 4" straight-pipe when the EBPV comes on. Sounds like a jet turbine. Until the engine oil hits about 150ish it comes on while driving/dinking around. Odd? Normal? Seems like it comes on whenever I give it fuel until the RPMs hit about 1600, then it goes off again. This keeps up until the engine is 100% hot. Maybe I should just delete it... seems like a trouble-maker. I'd rather leave it for now, but wow is that loud! And how can it be normal that it comes on while giving it fuel? PS: Already cleaned the tube really well. Maybe the sensor is just toast?
 

White Buffalo

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...............................Something else that's interesting. It's pretty obvious with 4" straight-pipe when the EBPV comes on. Sounds like a jet turbine. Until the engine oil hits about 150ish it comes on while driving/dinking around. Odd? Normal? Seems like it comes on whenever I give it fuel until the RPMs hit about 1600, then it goes off again. This keeps up until the engine is 100% hot. Maybe I should just delete it... seems like a trouble-maker. I'd rather leave it for now, but wow is that loud! And how can it be normal that it comes on while giving it fuel? PS: Already cleaned the tube really well. Maybe the sensor is just toast?

Sounds like a normal operating EBPV. it will do just that until the engine warms up. Many folks delete it because it is also a spot that tends to leak oil as well. Some like to keep it to help warm the truck up faster. I got rid of it myself - your choice.
 

mandkole

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Yeah, just unplug it-- it will stay open without cycling. Its noticeable with full exhaust, so id imagine its very noticeable with just a few feet of open pipe off the turbo.

on edit- interesting on the harness change. I need to change GPs at some point and I'll likely change the harnesses as well if anything seems suspect. Ive always took the position that the harness wiring works or it doesn't. But its a small gauge wire with a lot of voltage going through it and resistance can build.
 
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psduser1

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Yeah, just unplug it-- it will stay open without cycling. Its noticeable with full exhaust, so id imagine its very noticeable with just a few feet of open pipe off the turbo.

on edit- interesting on the harness change. I need to change GPs at some point and I'll likely change the harnesses as well if anything seems suspect. Ive always took the position that the harness wiring works or it doesn't. But its a small gauge wire with a lot of voltage going through it and resistance can build.

The harness thing is interesting. I had new gp, and a new doe man uvch, and it always smokes until the oil warms up, or egts go above 500*. Dorman=:flipa:
I'll have to get the ohm meter out, but it's definetly worth checking!
 

Swaan

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Idk. I got frickin new everything. And I mean everything. All genuine Ford stuff.
Even the compleat engine is fresh. These dam pis 175/80 still haze. Tryed all kinds of new tunes from matt. No go.
I'm almost ready to rip these injectors out and go with someone else's.
Although it runs like a raped ape hot and no smoke.
 

maplemale

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Idk. I got frickin new everything. And I mean everything. All genuine Ford stuff. Even the compleat engine is fresh. These dam pis 175/80 still haze.

Big difference though between haze and all out blowing smoke like a freight train. If it was just a slight haze like it was all summer, I'd never even have cared.
 

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