BTS Trans autopsy..

[mandkole]

Ok, you've all been hearing about the issues Ive had with the converter drifting issues and eventual slipping and inability to lock. This is a BTS that has was built in 2006 and has about 60K miles on it. Like me, the PO had driven it pretty mellow but made a few laps on the track, some 500hp dyno pulls and towed a little with it.

The trans is at my local racer buddy's shop, Canby Trans, and they've been down the road and back with 4R100s. They're very familiar with the tricks and can make them live for higher power and heavy tow applications. I have local support and they will pull it back out if its not right.

Disclaimer; Im not a trans expert. If I say something below that doesn't make sense, its likely due to my misunderstanding.

Converter
-The PI converter was identified as a '2.5 disk' clutch with a Dodge RE stator.
-They aren't sure why it didn't use the stronger (in their opinion) Ford stator
-Clutches have noted wear and one clutch disk was down to almost metal
-The converter was in very good condition otherwise and will be rebuilt with same parts. Recommended to put it back in.

Trans
-Pump looked pretty decent, nothing worn, warped or broken
-Pump had a Tugger kit
-the pump springs were observed very light, concern over ability to support adequate line pressure (my interpretation from the conversation), they plan to compare to a stock pump since some of the parts selections were unusual. May explain some of the TCC drifting issues.

-Billet parts: none, late model machined steel planets (those are often referred to as 'factory billet' planets)
- OD clutch pack had extra plate
- Reverse pack had extra plate
- 3rd clutch pack, standard configuration -- condition: burnt
- 2nd clutch pack, had extra plate? -- condition: very glazed
- 1st clutch pack, typical mods, condition; good
- Uses a 2 shim spacer in the 2-4 clutch support (not typical)
- All of the hardparts were in very good condition

- Plan: clean , replace the clutch packs, center bearing

Overall, there is nothing real special here with this BTS trans. It has much of the typical strength mods to be expected for a good running, heavier towing capacity trans.

Moving forward, the concern is that the line pressure has been on the low side and may be an issue with clutch apply not keeping up with more aggressive power or towing levels. It was never an aggressive shifter (but not limp either that I recall). We are going to put the line gauges back on it again after its finished and its making me think closely about having trans tuning re-looked at.

Who does real good trans tunes? May need to look at some collaboration.


My goal is not to bash the BTS, but it has only lasted 60K miles so its not performed up to my expectations as being a bulletproof trans. For the $4200 the PO put into it, its disappointing that Im putting money in it now also.

If any trans guys want to chime in, that's great, as I wanted to have a good discussion here about these transmissions.

 

[dieselmandustin]

I'm surprised your bts didn't have more billet parts. Do you know what hp it was built for? When we had mine apart it had billet input shaft, billet forward drum, billet intermediate shaft and billet od planetary. We had the bts and a stock trans apart at the same time when i was switching cases after the bts cracked and you could see the difference between those parts. But you are right there is no pixie dust inside a bts. Hell mine even had stock Borg Warner frictions in. I was a little disappointed when I had it apart. I'm not sure what I was expecting but I was not like blown away as I thought i would be. Don't get me wrong. I love my bts. It has always done what it was asked to do. And in my opinion worth every penny. But after having this
One apart if I ever need another one I'll build my own bts.

 

[mandkole]

Officially, the BTS receipt says 475hp-- it did a few pulls at 497 in 2008 and runs 13.20s@101. Yeah, Im disappointed given everything that everyone says about the BTS and that I've got it apart now. Back in 2006, I wonder if they sprinkled as much billet in them as today.

Jeff is still looking at some of the spring choices in the pump, the way its setup and is a little concerned with the line pressure given the tired clutches. He may dial it up a little. The VB is basic performance type calibration.

The good news is that the hardparts are perfectly fine. Jeff told me that guys are regularly pulling 25K with the basic same parts in a trans he'd build. He said that if I wanted to go all out on a converter, to get a TCS 3 disk, but what I have is perfectly fine. Crossing the fingers when it goes back in!

 

[psduser1]

Nice post!
I would expect that Brian may have improved some parts since 06 (?), and something built for less than 500hp seems to have done "ok" for a fair bit more.
As previously said, these aren't built from pixie dust and fairy bubbles.

 

[OBS-Addiction97]

Wtf?!!?! I'd expect every aftermarket part available to be put into a BTS, especially for what they cost. With that being said I've been happy with mine besides breaking an intermediate shaft. Makes me wonder.....

 

[Groomzybanshee]

Trans is almost ten years old I wouldn't be disappointed. And what's the need for all these billet parts in a 450 hp truck? Cyro stuff like is in it will do just fine as it has.

 

[1badpsd]

The factory clutches have more material on them then the red altos everyone else uses. Who cares if its a stock part, better is better. And he must use pixie dust since his not so special transmissions have held up In numerous 1000+HP setups...just sayin

 

[OBS-Addiction97]

Trans is almost ten years old I wouldn't be disappointed. And what's the need for all these billet parts in a 450 hp truck? Cyro stuff like is in it will do just fine as it has.

Ten years old with only 60k.... Also I was under the impression the BTS was more of a "one size fits all" kind of build. I would just expect it to be more built up that's all.

 

[dieselmandustin]

I understand why he uses full thickness clutches. I'm not knocking his product at all. My bts was probably the most Well spent money of my build. Brian is a genius for figuring out how to make these transmissions handle the power they handle and actually live. Could I have figured it out? Not hardly! All I was meaning is that after tearing it apart and seeing everything he puts into his trans. It's actually fairly simple and brilliant at the same time. I mean who would ever think you could use stock clutches add one to each drum, shim the center support to take up the slop, and turn an old slushbox into something that can handle tons of hp. It's not quite that simple but hopefully you get my point.

 

[dieselmandustin]

Jeff is still looking at some of the spring choices in the pump, the way its setup and is a little concerned with the line pressure given the tired clutches. He may dial it up a little.

I had to replace some of my clutches as well. From what I can tell Brian uses the boost valve that comes with the tugger kit. I switched mine to a sonnax boost valve. The springs that come with that are much stiffer than the ones Brian uses.

 

[mandkole]

I had to replace some of my clutches as well. From what I can tell Brian uses the boost valve that comes with the tugger kit. I switched mine to a sonnax boost valve. The springs that come with that are much stiffer than the ones Brian uses.

Yes, saw the same thing and we're going to go with another combo in the pump. The 2nd/3rd clutches have also been run though and need to be clamped more. Will put a little more aggressiveness in the shifts.

We caught the failures in time to not kill it. Much of it is getting the right line pressure combo and valving.

I understand why he uses full thickness clutches. I'm not knocking his product at all. My bts was probably the most Well spent money of my build. Brian is a genius for figuring out how to make these transmissions handle the power they handle and actually live. Could I have figured it out? Not hardly! All I was meaning is that after tearing it apart and seeing everything he puts into his trans. It's actually fairly simple and brilliant at the same time. I mean who would ever think you could use stock clutches add one to each drum, shim the center support to take up the slop, and turn an old slushbox into something that can handle tons of hp. It's not quite that simple but hopefully you get my point.

This is very true-- Brian was on the leading edge at one time of 'science-ing out' these transmissions. My builder (and many other builders) has learned the same things over the years and is not surprised by what he's seen. He thinks there was some unnecessary effort in some areas (extra clutch in OD for one) and noted that the industry has made some additional progress since 2006. He's had fun going through it seeing what another good builder has done. There are lots of stock part combos that produce good results.

 

[Groomzybanshee]

Ten years old with only 60k.... Also I was under the impression the BTS was more of a "one size fits all" kind of build. I would just expect it to be more built up that's all.

Yea... I've also got two of his trans in personal trucks one over 500hp. 100k+ miles the other 600hp. 80k plus miles, and Ive sold several all with over 60k. They are doing great. All with cales tunes of course :swordfight:

 

[mandkole]

is cale still writing tunes? This truck had cale tunes once upon a time.

 

[Layson]

I had another trans builder pretty much tell me the same exact thing about my BTS trans. He didn't take mine apart but had taken them apart before. I was pretty disappointed.

 

[V-Ref]

Great post. Thanks for sharing your findings.

 

[Tom S]

Seem to me back in 2006 it was a pretty good feat to make a trans last at 500hp. I do not think mine had a bunch of billet parts in it. I do remember a bunch of cryo ones those. I also remember him shortening the pump spring. We test drove it then adjusted some of the shift pressure bleed off holes/

 

[mandkole]

Seem to me back in 2006 it was a pretty good feat to make a trans last at 500hp. I do not think mine had a bunch of billet parts in it. I do remember a bunch of cryo ones those. I also remember him shortening the pump spring. We test drove it then adjusted some of the shift pressure bleed off holes/

I agree, then he was one of the few. Interesting on the cryo-- suppose it could be very possible its got cryod parts in it.

The TCC spring and how we set that up is something that needs to be looked at. Its a balance between TC clutch apply strength and oil flow to cooler. Brian was always very adamant that there was no need for stacked air coolers and the 6.0 cooler is all you need. The trans had stacked coolers when I got the truck, but I removed the extra one (on Brians suggestion when the drifting started to occur) and had no issues. It always ran very cool until the last few months, so the flow circuit seemed very good. The TCC just died early and drifted when the fluid was cold or moving slow.

 

[lincolnlocker]

I'm surprised your bts didn't have more billet parts. Do you know what hp it was built for? When we had mine apart it had billet input shaft, billet forward drum, billet intermediate shaft and billet od planetary. We had the bts and a stock trans apart at the same time when i was switching cases after the bts cracked and you could see the difference between those parts. But you are right there is no pixie dust inside a bts. Hell mine even had stock Borg Warner frictions in. I was a little disappointed when I had it apart. I'm not sure what I was expecting but I was not like blown away as I thought i would be. Don't get me wrong. I love my bts. It has always done what it was asked to do. And in my opinion worth every penny. But after having this
One apart if I ever need another one I'll build my own bts.

back then, cryo was the thing to do. doesn't change the way it looks so it will look stock.

Nice post!
I would expect that Brian may have improved some parts since 06 (?), and something built for less than 500hp seems to have done "ok" for a fair bit more.
As previously said, these aren't built from pixie dust and fairy bubbles.

yeah, lots

Trans is almost ten years old I wouldn't be disappointed. And what's the need for all these billet parts in a 450 hp truck? Cyro stuff like is in it will do just fine as it has.

true dat! anymore, a good vb and tunes will hold 450..

The factory clutches have more material on them then the red altos everyone else uses. Who cares if its a stock part, better is better. And he must use pixie dust since his not so special transmissions have held up In numerous 1000+HP setups...just sayin

yup. brian told me that exact same thing!

Ten years old with only 60k.... Also I was under the impression the BTS was more of a "one size fits all" kind of build. I would just expect it to be more built up that's all.

it is, sorta.. its a vb adjustment from what i was told.

I understand why he uses full thickness clutches. I'm not knocking his product at all. My bts was probably the most Well spent money of my build. Brian is a genius for figuring out how to make these transmissions handle the power they handle and actually live. Could I have figured it out? Not hardly! All I was meaning is that after tearing it apart and seeing everything he puts into his trans. It's actually fairly simple and brilliant at the same time. I mean who would ever think you could use stock clutches add one to each drum, shim the center support to take up the slop, and turn an old slushbox into something that can handle tons of hp. It's not quite that simple but hopefully you get my point.

yeah, bts is by far the best thing ive done to date.

Seem to me back in 2006 it was a pretty good feat to make a trans last at 500hp. I do not think mine had a bunch of billet parts in it. I do remember a bunch of cryo ones those. I also remember him shortening the pump spring. We test drove it then adjusted some of the shift pressure bleed off holes/

500 was big power then.. lol

live life full throttle

 

[co04cobra]

I'd be happy to get one to live at 350hp...LOL

Once Dustin sees this he'll understand.....oke:

Auto transmissions, they work great, until they don't. The time frame in between those 2 is a huge variable...sometimes it's 10k miles, sometimes it's 70..

How many times will local builders rebuild until they say that's enough? Within a small time frame.

 

[gnxtc2]

I doubt you're going to get a performance trans builder to divulge his secrets in building a performance trans. My trans guy (Paul aka The Punisher) showed me a few things he did but told me not to tell. I'm sure there was other things he's done.

Just like building an engine. You can install the best of the best (billet crank, billet rods, custom pistons, yada, yada, yada) but if the clearances are wrong, bye-bye engine.

x2 on stock clutches. Notice the teeth on the 2nd gear Alto clutches that were inside my Suncoast trans.

Billy T.
[email protected]