Cam discussion

Jeff@Spartan · Mar 11, 2013

jdgleason said:
One thing that I can add to this thread is my experiences over the last week with my truck and Wayne's.

Wayne's truck and mine are almost identical in builds. He has dual pumps, 60s and an atmosphere charger. We both run Matt's tunes as well. Wayne had a waste gate with his setup, but he told me that it was kind of a waste fuel only because his gate never opened on fuel only. Because of this, I didn't prioritize a gate when I put my truck together.

Well once I got my truck on the dyno, I found out it had lost power and maxes the back pressure sensor as soon as 2400 rpm or so. Comparing to Wayne's where it doesn't get even close to that high at 3500rpm... I was scratching my head.

Until we realized the one fundamental difference in our trucks - a cam. Obviously without back to back testing this is only my opinion, but I think that cam is willing Wayne dump a ton of back pressure and I'm truly wishing I had added one. I will be adding a cam as soon as its sensible to do so, but for now a gate will have to suffice.

Very interesting find JD. Good info.

Powerstroked162 · Mar 11, 2013

jdgleason said:
One thing that I can add to this thread is my experiences over the last week with my truck and Wayne's.

Wayne's truck and mine are almost identical in builds. He has dual pumps, 60s and an atmosphere charger. We both run Matt's tunes as well. Wayne had a waste gate with his setup, but he told me that it was kind of a waste fuel only because his gate never opened on fuel only. Because of this, I didn't prioritize a gate when I put my truck together.

Well once I got my truck on the dyno, I found out it had lost power and maxes the back pressure sensor as soon as 2400 rpm or so. Comparing to Wayne's where it doesn't get even close to that high at 3500rpm... I was scratching my head.

Until we realized the one fundamental difference in our trucks - a cam. Obviously without back to back testing this is only my opinion, but I think that cam is willing Wayne dump a ton of back pressure and I'm truly wishing I had added one. I will be adding a cam as soon as its sensible to do so, but for now a gate will have to suffice.

To be fair, Justin's truck is making more power than you are currently with no cam and less fuel... But I do agree, a cam really rounds out the setup. I know after talking with mike about his cam in the silver truck, that I won't be doing a build without one.

On a different note, is anybody planning on doing can testing? I know in the 7.3 days it wasn't feasible to do just a cam swap and compare against stock because of the work involved. The 6.4 should make that a little less of a headache I would think

.

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Mar 11, 2013

08SUPERKING said:
I have a question on the cams... What does regrind stand for in our cam options..

just tring to under stand what is done to the cam for this process...

thanks,

That's when you take a factory cam and put the cam in a cam grinder and actually remove the surface material to reshape the lobes of the cam to a different profile.

08SUPERKING · Mar 11, 2013

Thanks,

That's when you take a factory cam and put the cam in a cam grinder and actually remove the surface material to reshape the lobes of the cam to a different profile.

Charles · Mar 11, 2013

Powerstroked162 said:
To be fair, Justin's truck is making more power than you are currently with no cam and less fuel... But I do agree, a cam really rounds out the setup. I know after talking with mike about his cam in the silver truck, that I won't be doing a build without one.

On a different note, is anybody planning on doing can testing? I know in the 7.3 days it wasn't feasible to do just a cam swap and compare against stock because of the work involved. The 6.4 should make that a little less of a headache I would think

.

I think swamps has done about 5 or so cams back to back on the engine dyno thus far on a 7.3 engine. I haven't seen anything that changed my mind about camshaft swaps yet, lol. Losing a little power compared to the stock grind wasn't uncommon among the group.

Until profiles go on the engine dyno back to back with NO other changes it's all bs.

Maybe they will do some 6.4 cam tests at some point and clear out the bs there too.

Fast-6.0 · Mar 11, 2013

We did a before and after cam test. No other changes. I have yet to go through the data to see loss or gains.

91turbogsx · Mar 11, 2013

Powerstroked162 said:
On a different note, is anybody planning on doing can testing? I know in the 7.3 days it wasn't feasible to do just a cam swap and compare against stock because of the work involved. The 6.4 should make that a little less of a headache I would think.

I only have experience doing a 6.4 cam and haven't done a 7.3 yet but I don't think the 6.4 will be easier considering you have to drop the crank unless you want to risk removing the crank flange.

Charles · Mar 11, 2013

Fast-6.0 said:
We did a before and after cam test. No other changes. I have yet to go through the data to see loss or gains.

Then you should have the data you need. I'm sure a 40hp gain on the dyno from the cam alone wouldn't hurt sales any.

bigrpowr · Mar 11, 2013

Charles said:
Then you should have the data you need. I'm sure a 40hp gain on the dyno from the cam alone wouldn't hurt sales any.

or a drop in back pressure.

SEABEE08FX4 · Mar 11, 2013

bigrpowr said:
or a drop in back pressure.

Or just spooling the turbos faster/sooner in the RPM bans and broadening the power curve.

faster7581 · Mar 11, 2013

So reading into the last couple of posts, a cam will lower back pressure, and on stock fuel with a cam and 72mm turbo I wouldnt need a wastegate?

webb06 · Mar 11, 2013

faster7581 said:
So reading into the last couple of posts, a cam will lower back pressure, and on stock fuel with a cam and 72mm turbo I wouldnt need a wastegate?

Stock fuel and a 72mm doesn't necessarily need a wastegate either. A wastegate would be a cheaper alternative than a cam though. This is what I've been told

B585Ford · Mar 11, 2013

webb06 said:
Stock fuel and a 72mm doesn't necessarily need a wastegate either. A wastegate would be a cheaper alternative than a cam though. This is what I've been told

Cam is cheaper parts wise, but labor is $$$ on cams unless you have tore into it pretty good so generally a WG would be cheaper if you aren't doing the labor yourself.

Excellent thread

madman1234509 · Mar 11, 2013

Fast-6.0 said:
We did a before and after cam test. No other changes. I have yet to go through the data to see loss or gains.

^^^ This.... Up until this statement, noone has ever mentioned before and after testing with any cam that they sell. It has all been speculation. I had a cam in my truck, and am not sure about adding it when I put everything in my sig on my new truck. And honestly, besides the valve spring allowing me to rev a little higher, I didnt notice anything with the few mods that I had....

But the fact you say "I have yet to go through the data" makes me wonder... The only thing most people on here are going to care about, and the only thing most average joes are going to care about is a before and after HP and Torque graph. Its not hard to look at a graph and say yes there was a gain, or no there wasnt. And personally, until there is solid evidence, I dont think I am going to spend the money on the parts and labor to do it again until there is evidence this has made a difference. I remember the last time people made a hype about a product with no results.....

jdgleason · Mar 11, 2013

Powerstroked162 said:
To be fair, Justin's truck is making more power than you are currently with no cam and less fuel... But I do agree, a cam really rounds out the setup. I know after talking with mike about his cam in the silver truck, that I won't be doing a build without one.

On a different note, is anybody planning on doing can testing? I know in the 7.3 days it wasn't feasible to do just a cam swap and compare against stock because of the work involved. The 6.4 should make that a little less of a headache I would think

.

What? I don't have a cam either, and his truck made less power?

one2nine · Mar 11, 2013

I'm not expecting a big gain from a cam. I'm more interested in how it shifts the power curve and smooths it out

B585Ford · Mar 11, 2013

madman1234509 said:
^^^ This.... Up until this statement, noone has ever mentioned before and after testing with any cam that they sell. It has all been speculation. I had a cam in my truck, and am not sure about adding it when I put everything in my sig on my new truck. And honestly, besides the valve spring allowing me to rev a little higher, I didnt notice anything with the few mods that I had....

But the fact you say "I have yet to go through the data" makes me wonder... The only thing most people on here are going to care about, and the only thing most average joes are going to care about is a before and after HP and Torque graph. Its not hard to look at a graph and say yes there was a gain, or no there wasnt. And personally, until there is solid evidence, I dont think I am going to spend the money on the parts and labor to do it again until there is evidence this has made a difference. I remember the last time people made a hype about a product with no results.....

I realize I am not "average" but when/if I do a cam, it wont be for a Max HP increase. I would do one for improved spool up and a reduction in BP. My impression has always been that unless you have a pretty big build, especially given the stingy heads of the 6.4, you wont see a huge difference in peak HP, but you will see a flatter curve.

78f100 · Mar 11, 2013

I just installed a cam but will never know how much difference it really makes. I would love to see some results also as I believe most of the stage 1 cams are really close in size just different names on them. I will say it does make me wonder why no one has ever posted any results from a swap alone. Maybe its the amount of labor it requires to do the swap. If the gains were huge I bet lots of info would be available. If it helps my turbos spool it will be worth it to me as my motor was already down anyway.

madman1234509 · Mar 12, 2013

78f100 said:
I just installed a cam but will never know how much difference it really makes. I would love to see some results also as I believe most of the stage 1 cams are really close in size just different names on them. I will say it does make me wonder why no one has ever posted any results from a swap alone. Maybe its the amount of labor it requires to do the swap. If the gains were huge I bet lots of info would be available. If it helps my turbos spool it will be worth it to me as my motor was already down anyway.

^^ Exactly what Ive been saying on every cam discussion over the last 1 1/2 years. I DID have a cam on my '08... Cams arent relatively cheap, and neither is the labor or supporting parts to install them. But yet EVERY company that sells them has hyped them up at some point with no results on how they perform. And like you said, and I hinted towards in my last post, if the gains were significant, whether it be a decrease in BP, a flatter torque or hp curve, or a significant gain in power you think someone would have posted it up by now to try and sell their product.... After some things that have gone on the last 6 or so months, im not going to be big on buying any product without some factual evidence, not just hype and speculation. There have been some big HP trucks on stock valve train, so keeping the stock cam until there is some proof isnt a huge deal to me.

powerstrokin15 · Mar 12, 2013

honestly though. who's gonna tear down there motor to do JUST a cam. it's a lot of work.. most do cause they are already there

like said I don't expect huge gains. but if it's a flatter curve, quicker spool up, etc ill be super happy for the money. they aren't cheap like ported fuel rails or something, but when you're spending over $1000 on an intake manifold, or several thousands on turbos, what's a few hundred more on a cam while you're there?

Sent looking at my blown up 6.4