Filling A 6.4 Hard Block

[jimdawg185]

I know there was some info in the thread about cracked blocks. But I am going to do this with my spare motor for a future drag truck, or maybe for my blue truck for daily driving after I collect all the parts.

So, I have a basic understanding of the coolant path and where not to fill, but the more data we can collect from each other the better.

First, coolant path.
Obviously the coolant goes into the front of the block up through the heads and back out the front to through the front cover and on. Im sure that the head is balanced to create the proper flow path and equalize and optimize thermal transfer.

Second, hard block fill level.

If you pre ran tubing you could in theory you could nearly fill the block all the way to the top of the deck. However, I see this as a two edged sword. You get all the protection from block cracks but the combustion event happens up there and I see a need for a little room. So, what is the optimal solution here.

Idea's, Comments, ect?
Pics will come after I start to mess with it. I have to find a motor first...

 

[webb06]

I know elite has done this quite a few times. Maybe they will chime in and help with some pointers.

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

It gonna run hotter. There really isn't much concern as we know where they crack and why. Filling the block isn't a guaranteed or surefire way to prevent it. Not saying you can't do it, just my
$.02.

 

[webb06]

I don't really see much of a need now either....

 

[powerstroked08]

I don't see any real need for it. But if your going to do it I think filling it and leaving the top 2 inches for coolant to flow since thats where the combustion heat really is. I'm pretty sure thats what some of the bigger builds have done for the street trucks. I personally wouldn't fill mine.

 

[sonic blue l]

It gonna run hotter. There really isn't much concern as we know where they crack and why. Filling the block isn't a guaranteed or surefire way to prevent it. Not saying you can't do it, just my
$.02.

So why do they crack?
Thanks

 

[Stroked777]

So why do they crack?
Thanks

People are blaming the block being thin near the stud hole and added stress ie. over torquing a stud is the culprit. There's a thread about cracked blocks

 

[sonic blue l]

Yeah I just wasn't sure if there was a conclusion. If they cracked with those who backed the stud off a 1/2 turn, etc.
I'm thinking I will just use factory bolts when time comes. I really want an excuse to replace my lifters, maybe I will just do it in the winter.
I still feel with proper prep the factory bolts should hold up fine for my needs.

 

[Crack85]

Why would you use factory bolts? You do know they are torque to yield...

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

Yeah I just wasn't sure if there was a conclusion. If they cracked with those who backed the stud off a 1/2 turn, etc.
I'm thinking I will just use factory bolts when time comes. I really want an excuse to replace my lifters, maybe I will just do it in the winter.
I still feel with proper prep the factory bolts should hold up fine for my needs.

It has nothing to do with anything other than too much stress on a weak point in the block. You can install them 100 different ways and still get a crack. The only way is to lower the stress on the weak area of the block. They crack in one spot. They crack because of too much pulling force applied by the head fastener. It's not a theory it's fact, we have had great success with lowering the torque.

 

[sonic blue l]

Why would you use factory bolts? You do know they are torque to yield...

Well mostly as I'd never go bigger injectors, I would like to get a bigger atmo though.

Other reason is I replace a guys short block that had a spartan. It was a low km engine but had excessive play in a rod to piston pin. Anyway I used factory bolts with no issues. (I see the guy once and awhile and always ask how his trucks running)

Finally my 6l, it's studded. I installed arp studs (was a long time ago before their latest lube came out). Ran a heat cycle, did a final torque. Year later I filled up with fuel, the tanker truck goofed and swapped the diesel with the gas at the pump. I replaced my injectors, checked my studs and a couple moved.

Ford also states studs will distort the block. A year or so later my bed plates started to leak so I resealed them and replaced the bearings as there was some unusual wear.

Of course this is not conclusive, but I think I will try the factory bolts over studs, especially if they remove the chances of a cracked block.

Btw when I prep heads and block I have about as much time in the prep as what it takes me to yank the engine.

 

[Crack85]

Interesting take.., especially on studs distorting block....

 

[sonic blue l]

It has nothing to do with anything other than too much stress on a weak point in the block. You can install them 100 different ways and still get a crack. The only way is to lower the stress on the weak area of the block. They crack in one spot. They crack because of too much pulling force applied by the head fastener. It's not a theory it's fact, we have had great success with lowering the torque.

200lbs?

I know stock bolts I've broken many a socket undoing them. However a stock torque to yield has a definite " feel " when torquing down vs a stud.

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

It is what it is, if you feel better with bolts and they will suffice then that's a great thing. Torque values change with stud material and lube. So it's hard to say what everyone is doing comparatively.

 

[B585Ford]

Many trucks have stretched the factory bolts on stock injectors and stock turbos. Adding a bigger atmo will increase that chance even more so I can't see pulling the heads and not using studs. I understand your concern with cracking the block but look at how many Morgan has done with his modified torqueing and not had a problem (torqueing the weak area 25 less than what ARP recommends). I would rethink that one.

 

[kevin]

Could someone make a diagram on witch bolts are in the weak spots?

 

[webb06]

Could someone make a diagram on witch bolts are in the weak spots?

Check the cracked block thread. There's a bunch of pics in it

 

[78f100]

Drivers side top row 2nd to last stud, is where they crack.

Morgan, if I understand correctly you are slacking the tq off on that stud only? If so and you don't mind sharing what are you final tq it to?

 

[shmoozer]

I want to say it's 20 or so pounds less then spec.



-KCCO-

 

[jimdawg185]

Good info fellas.