High idle and hazing.....

[jngreen]

It seems my truck no longer kicks up into high idle when its cold out, also it seems to haze more than it use to. These two symptoms may be completely unrelated, but I have a hunch that they are.

Which sensor tells the computer to kick up the idle a few notches, is the coolant or oil temp sensor? I'm guessing that one or the other is malfunctioning and it also does not allow it to go into the proper cold start timing programming. The timing is may not be advanced enough for cold starts, and it starts to haze when its only 30 degrees out. Tell me if I'm way off base, but thats my uneducated theory at the moment.

I know that these issues happen with my chip in the truck, stock tuning (chip removed), and with my hypertech programmer. So, I'm fairly certain its not tuning related, however I do have some strange issues going on when my chip is installed. I might start a separate thread about those issues though. But then again, those issues might also be related.

 

[SeeYa]

No you're not off base.

The HI-Idle function is based off of the oil temps sensor. Oil temp also modifies the timing, this is why there is more smoke. My guess is your Oil temp sensor is flaking out or the harness is shorting out. And yes your tunes would not work correctly if this is the case.


Diane

 

[jngreen]

Awesome, thanks.

The issue with my chip seems to happen more when the truck is cold, if I let out of the throttle too quickly I will get an SES light on the dash and the pedal will go dead until the light goes out. It kinda sucks while driving down the road, worrying if your pedal is gonna start funtioning again as it should. It doesn't do it on stock programming or on the hypertech tuning.

 

[SeeYa]

Awesome, thanks.

The issue with my chip seems to happen more when the truck is cold, if I let out of the throttle too quickly I will get an SES light on the dash and the pedal will go dead until the light goes out. It kinda sucks while driving down the road, worrying if your pedal is gonna start funtioning again as it should. It doesn't do it on stock programming or on the hypertech tuning.

The discription is helpful, but to determine what is actually happeing you will need to check for codes with a scanner. There should be a code stored in the PCM from the SES light coming on.

Your Hypertech can pull the code for you.

Diane

 

[jngreen]

I don't think the hypertech can, you would think that it would but never been able to. Its a cheapo that only works for the 2000 model year.

My dad has a superchips programmer that will do it.

 

[SeeYa]

I don't think the hypertech can, you would think that it would but never been able to. Its a cheapo that only works for the 2000 model year.

My dad has a superchips programmer that will do it.

Yes the Superchps should be able to if its their handheld downloader.


Diane

 

[jngreen]

Well, my sister in law visited last night with her boyfriend, who just happens to drive an Edge tuned 7.3.

We plugged my chip back into my truck and then watched the "datastream" on his Edge programmer. The EOT on the Edge seemed to be reading correctly, the temps looked to be close to what they should have been and the temps climbed the longer we drove the truck. The weather was a high of 31 yesterday and my truck still never kicked the idle up on its own. I did pull the codes with the Edge, but it only showed one for the ebpv valve that is missing which is confusing because there should have been more than just the one code. For example, there should have been one for the Air Intake Heater because it is missing as well. I am guessing that the Edge didn't read all of them or wouldn't let us see all of the codes, so I guess I will have to try again with the Superchips.

My sister in law's boyfriend is a tech at a Ford dealer and offered to snag an IDS some weekend to look it over. I may have to take him up on his offer, even though that seems like a lot of trouble for my high idle issue and a little hazing when cold. I have to admit though, it was pretty annoying when he fired his truck up at 10pm after sitting for 7 hours in my driveway and it immediatly kicked the idle up and closed the ebpv. His truck is rusty and has a bunch of miles, but everything works. Mine is nice and clean with only 80,000 miles and isn't working correctly right now.

 

[rpm-inc]

I forgot to plug in the air intake temp sensor and my van wouldn't idle up on its own. Just a thought.

 

[jngreen]

hmm, I'll check that out.


The air intake sensor doesn't really explain the other issues though. On a side note, I plugged my chip back in and my throttle never went dead like it has in the past. Its hard to keep track of this stuff and diagnose when I don't drive it daily.

 

[907DAVE]

I forgot to plug in the air intake temp sensor and my van wouldn't idle up on its own. Just a thought.

That's because the IAT sensor is what controls your high idle via the cold idle control function, not your EOT sensor.

No you're not off base.

The HI-Idle function is based off of the oil temps sensor. Oil temp also modifies the timing, this is why there is more smoke. My guess is your Oil temp sensor is flaking out or the harness is shorting out. And yes your tunes would not work correctly if this is the case.


Diane

Nope.

The ONLY thing the EOT sensor can do to your idle is adjust the base idle speed, and limit the cold idle control...like if your engine oil was 200* and IAT was below the programmed threshold it will not high idle. This is not his issue as he has checked this.

Did you know there are SOI adder functions that are solely based off of air temp?

Maybe thats why he is having these two issues?????

Need me to show you how these things work?

 

[SeeYa]

It seems my truck no longer kicks up into high idle when its cold out, also it seems to haze more than it use to. These two symptoms may be completely unrelated, but I have a hunch that they are.

Which sensor tells the computer to kick up the idle a few notches, is the coolant or oil temp sensor? I'm guessing that one or the other is malfunctioning and it also does not allow it to go into the proper cold start timing programming. The timing is may not be advanced enough for cold starts, and it starts to haze when its only 30 degrees out. Tell me if I'm way off base, but thats my uneducated theory at the moment.

I know that these issues happen with my chip in the truck, stock tuning (chip removed), and with my hypertech programmer. So, I'm fairly certain its not tuning related, however I do have some strange issues going on when my chip is installed. I might start a separate thread about those issues though. But then again, those issues might also be related.

Awesome, thanks.

The issue with my chip seems to happen more when the truck is cold, if I let out of the throttle too quickly I will get an SES light on the dash and the pedal will go dead until the light goes out. It kinda sucks while driving down the road, worrying if your pedal is gonna start funtioning again as it should. It doesn't do it on stock programming or on the hypertech tuning.

I just realized this. You will need to make up your mind as to what is happening or we are not going to be able to find out what is going on.

That's because the IAT sensor is what controls your high idle via the cold idle control function, not your EOT sensor.




Nope.

The ONLY thing the EOT sensor can do to your idle is adjust the base idle speed, and limit the cold idle control...like if your engine oil was 200* and IAT was below the programmed threshold it will not high idle. This is not his issue as he has checked this.

Did you know there are SOI adder functions that are solely based off of air temp?

Maybe thats why he is having these two issues?????

Need me to show you how these things work?

Jody will be back later today and he said he will snag a picture of the tables, but in the meantime please do not unplug your EOT sensor. If you do, you might want to be far away from our truck. You will not like what happens.

The EOT sensor controls many, many functions not just one.

 

[jngreen]

I just realized this. You will need to make up your mind as to what is happening or we are not going to be able to find out what is going on.

Easy now, I'm just reporting symptoms, I'm haven't figured anything out yet. I'm not sure if I can control my truck with my mind, but I'll give it a shot.




As of the other morning, it was a warmer temperature outside at around 45 degrees, and it decided to kick up into high idle. So at the moment, I don't seem to have any symptoms even with the chip reinstalled. I'm sure the gremlins will come back though. About the throttle going dead while driving, Im not sure if its related to the lack of high idle and hazing or not, thats kinda why I asked for advice on here. It only happened on two seperate days, both times were when my chip was installed. The first time it happened, it went dead every time I let off the throttle completely in the stretch of about 15 miles, probably a total of 5-7 times. Once the motor warmed up, it didn't do it the rest of the trip. I think part of the problem is that the truck doesn't get driven a lot. Its lucky to get 5,000 miles on it per year.

 

[jngreen]

That's because the IAT sensor is what controls your high idle via the cold idle control function, not your EOT sensor.




Nope.

The ONLY thing the EOT sensor can do to your idle is adjust the base idle speed, and limit the cold idle control...like if your engine oil was 200* and IAT was below the programmed threshold it will not high idle. This is not his issue as he has checked this.

Did you know there are SOI adder functions that are solely based off of air temp?

Maybe thats why he is having these two issues?????

Need me to show you how these things work?

Okay, I will look closer at the IAT sensor and the harness. It kinda scares me what I might find as I cleaned out a mouse nest the last time I looked under my hood. Hopefully they didn't get too hungry for electricity, before I removed their home.

 

[Tom S]

That's because the IAT sensor is what controls your high idle via the cold idle control function, not your EOT sensor.


The ONLY thing the EOT sensor can do to your idle is adjust the base idle speed, and limit the cold idle control...like if your engine oil was 200* and IAT was below the programmed threshold it will not high idle. This is not his issue as he has checked this.

Did you know there are SOI adder functions that are solely based off of air temp?
Maybe thats why he is having these two issues?????

I would like to see see what that looks like as I am curious.

 

[907DAVE]

Here's the high idle stuff...

And one of the SOI adders...

And here's the EOT based RPM adder...

 

[907DAVE]

Ignore the actual RPM scaling in the Cold Idle Control function, its not quite accurate....but the amount of change is.

 

[TyCorr]

Easy now, I'm just reporting symptoms, I'm haven't figured anything out yet. I'm not sure if I can control my truck with my mind, but I'll give it a shot

Easy, hell. You said it does it regardless of whether the pcm has any programming plugged into it or not. Then shortly after that stated it doesnt do it on stock programming. Thats why the comment was made. You'll have to determine when it does really do it before anyone can figure out whats what. And id expedite getting rid of that superchit tuning.

 

[Tom S]

The timing map is obvious but I do not get how the 1st, 2nd and 4th maps all work together. Are some of those adding idle speed and others capping it? I take it the first map is what lets the truck idle at a lower speed for a while before kicking the idle up. Does it return to base idle after the 250 seconds?

Thanks for posting those I really enjoy looking at stuff like that.

 

[TyCorr]

So, dave, having said all this. When one puts an aftmkt intake on the truck and leaves the iat to dangle what does this effect? Or nothing? Ive always wondered. More specifically does it change fueling? Sorry for the derail!

 

[907DAVE]

The timing map is obvious but I do not get how the 1st, 2nd and 4th maps all work together. Are some of those adding idle speed and others capping it? I take it the first map is what lets the truck idle at a lower speed for a while before kicking the idle up. Does it return to base idle after the 250 seconds?

Thanks for posting those I really enjoy looking at stuff like that.

Those functions add to the idle speed. The 1st is the time it takes to add in the cold idle control, 2nd is the RPM that will be added vs IAT, and the 4th is RPM that will be added vs EOT. The only thing that will disable the cold idle control is your brake pedal and a EOT parameter that will turn it off after the preset temp is reached. The EOT vs RPM (#4) will always be there, regardless of what you are doing with the truck.

Also keep in mind this is all in Celsius.

So, dave, having said all this. When one puts an aftmkt intake on the truck and leaves the iat to dangle what does this effect? Or nothing? Ive always wondered. More specifically does it change fueling? Sorry for the derail!

You are just reading under hood temps instead of intake air temp....which for most aftermarket intakes is the same thing.....lol.