Long Cranking all of a sudden

95powersmoker · Jan 27, 2016

Hey guys, Been an extremely long time since I posted here. Took a hiatus from the forums for a while now. Having a problem though. I think I'm on the right track but want to run my thoughts by all of you.

My truck started doing this last Sunday. It is taking 3-4 seconds to crank before starting when cold and usually a little longer 5-6 seconds when warm. It used to fire off immediately no matter what the conditions were. I verified my hpop res is draining back. Checked it yesterday morning before starting and it was completely empty. The oil in the pan is in the middle of the dipstick and no noticeable leaks in either the valley of the motor or down the front of the motor. Also, I checked the ICP sensor and it is free and clear of any oil which leads me to believe it is good. This truck runs just like normal after it gets started so it's just a matter of draining back and the long cranking is the time it is taking to refill the HPOP reservoir. I took a AE recording this morning. It gets over 500psi ICP in less than a second from turning the key but doesn't start and the DC climbs from 39-68%.

If the truck runs good after starting, the LPOP should be fine. If the IPR was bad, wouldn't the truck either not start or run like crap all the time? If the HPOP was bad, it would also affect performance after starting which it doesn't. Does this sound like just a drain back issue? Or could it be injector Orings?

I am attaching a AE recording. You can see the ICP spikes to 3400 as soon as the truck started.

Give me your thoughts. Thank you.

ToMang07 · Jan 27, 2016

I wonder if the IPR is sticking.

Magnum PD · Jan 27, 2016

Possible you may have a scrared front cover of LPOP

Arisley · Jan 27, 2016

That was my thought also. Sticking open just a bit and allowing the HPOP to drain empty.

95powersmoker · Jan 27, 2016

The function of the IPR is to restrict the oil from draining by opening as demand increases, correct? In turn, that restriction is supplying high oil pressure.

But the HPOP Res is before the IPR in the system, correct? The IPR is only restricting oil from the heads from draining. This is why my ICP psi is immediately within spec to start the truck, but the IPR is opening fully trying to get more oil pressure but there is no oil in the reservoir. That's why the Duty Cycle is maxing out. So the IPR should be closing fully correct?

So what would cause the reservoir to drain?

Magnum PD · Jan 27, 2016

Take the plug out of the top of the Rez and see if oil comes out while cranking.

95powersmoker · Jan 27, 2016

Magnum PD said:
Take the plug out of the top of the Rez and see if oil comes out while cranking.

Can you explain what that might show? Seems to me that is a good way to make a mess for really no reason. Oil has to come through there for the truck to be running.

mandkole · Jan 27, 2016

Id suspect an air leak somewhere that's allowing the cover to drain. I thought the lpop maintains a seal that keeps everything full during shutdown. All of the wear areas cannot afford for the oil passages to refill..

After the truck starts, is it a little cranky/rough? Id think the hpop and rails could get some air in them as its refilling.

psduser1 · Jan 27, 2016

I'd guess orings.

95powersmoker · Jan 27, 2016

mandkole said:
Id suspect an air leak somewhere that's allowing the cover to drain. I thought the lpop maintains a seal that keeps everything full during shutdown. All of the wear areas cannot afford for the oil passages to refill..

After the truck starts, is it a little cranky/rough? Id think the hpop and rails could get some air in them as its refilling.

Not typically. Once it starts, it's usually good. Might give me a lope or two. Nothing abnormal.

psduser1 said:
I'd guess orings.

Which orings? Injector or IPR?

psduser1 · Jan 27, 2016

Injector.
Just guessing.
Assuming the hpop stays full for a bit after a hot shutdown? Like for an hour or so.

95powersmoker · Jan 27, 2016

Once the rain clears, that's what I want to check. I've only checked the reservoir right before a cold start.

mandkole · Jan 27, 2016

Heres another thing to check.. I think I learned something today haha.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums...-3-hpop-reservoir-keep-losing-its-oil-241178/

psduser1 · Jan 27, 2016

That would be my second guess, but I've never had that experience, personally.
Should be an easy check.
Good link, mandkole!

95powersmoker · Jan 28, 2016

Here is another AE datalog. This is two warm engine starts back to back. I drove the truck home about 1.5 hours. Parked, shut the engine off, started log then started engine twice. It seemed to start in 2-3 seconds, but you can see the DC % jump up towards max and ICP stays below 500psi until start both times. That is different than on a cold start it seems.

I also noticed my batteries are only giving me 10.9 when I start cranking. It would be kinda silly if that was part of this too. Still have the hpop res draining after sitting. Haven't been able to check after shutting down with a warm engine though.

95powersmoker · Jan 28, 2016

I started my truck this afternoon and let it run for a while. Shut it down and check two hours later and the HPOP res was still full. Started it up again and still cranked 3-4 seconds. Anybody have more thoughts on this one?

psduser1 · Jan 28, 2016

Compression check?
Apparently, you're not running out of hpo.
How many miles on the truck? On the injectors?
Mine cranks for longer than it should, but I've put a lot of hard miles on it. It runs "fine" warm, but starts hard, especially cold, below 20*.
How's blowby at the oilcap, cold and hot?

dsberman94 · Jan 28, 2016

As said. Ipr could just be sticking or the coil on the ipr is going bad. I just recently had an ipr issue and I was able to fix it 100% by just changing to a new coil. The valve itself is fine. Made some strange stuff happen. At first I had a no hot start issue and then it would start at 140* oil temp. Then no hot start until 130* or below. Then it eventually just died on me on my way to work one day and wouldn't restart until below 130. Had to come home and get another vehicle to take to work. I was thinking it was injector o rings which is why I was procrastinating so bad on it. Turned out to be the ipr solenoid, try just swapping the electrical part with someone else with a 7.3. Might solve your issue. It'll probably progressively get worse.

95powersmoker · Jan 29, 2016

psduser1 said:
Compression check?
Apparently, you're not running out of hpo.
How many miles on the truck? On the injectors?
Mine cranks for longer than it should, but I've put a lot of hard miles on it. It runs "fine" warm, but starts hard, especially cold, below 20*.
How's blowby at the oilcap, cold and hot?

Truck has 258k. Injectors have 50k. I haven't checked the compression on this truck, I'm sure it's in line with a 258k mile motor. Not very much blowby.

I'm definitely not running out of HPO, I just am losing it after sitting.

dsberman94 said:
As said. Ipr could just be sticking or the coil on the ipr is going bad. I just recently had an ipr issue and I was able to fix it 100% by just changing to a new coil. The valve itself is fine. Made some strange stuff happen. At first I had a no hot start issue and then it would start at 140* oil temp. Then no hot start until 130* or below. Then it eventually just died on me on my way to work one day and wouldn't restart until below 130. Had to come home and get another vehicle to take to work. I was thinking it was injector o rings which is why I was procrastinating so bad on it. Turned out to be the ipr solenoid, try just swapping the electrical part with someone else with a 7.3. Might solve your issue. It'll probably progressively get worse.

That was my first thought too was to just replace the IPR. I just didn't want to start throwing money at it if anybody saw anomalies in the charts I posted. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody in the area to do any swapping of known good parts. Most of the folks I know have newer trucks while I drive the dinosaur.

That ball valve plug looks like a real tough place to try to get to. Haha. I was looking at that yesterday. If I can catch a break in the weather, I'll take out the IPR and get a good look at it. See if there is any debris or something. Then I guess I will just replace it.