Low ICP at WOT

[smokinstroker92]

I have a customers truck kicking my ass i need of some advice

Start with the history of the truck started out just studded and ****** it blew the gaskets went back with new studs and oringed the head. At this time i installed warren 205/100s barder, Barder stage 4, RCD thumper 1 hpop, regulated return, fuel system w/ fuel lab pump, ported intake mani, etc. It also has a 58v ficm and the possibility of some ficm tuning but the customer nor i know what it is.

The truck has had a icp at wot problem since the work was done. The injectors have been back to warren and now have upgraded solenoids. The pump has been back to rcd and supposedly tested as well. The truck would only hold about 2.5-2.6v of icp at wot which is wayyy low and will max the ipr DC as soon as you go wot.

Now what i have replace, stand pipes, dummy plugs, rebuilt the rails with all new orings and nipples, new stc fitting, new ipr, new icp sensor. The truck has no leaks when pressure tested and has no hot start issues.

I swapped the pump a few days ago for a brand new ford unit and it will hold over 3v at wot now. Yesterday i swapped the ficm for a stock working unit in case the current ficm has some crazy tuning on it. Seemed to help some and icp was 3.2-3.5v at wot. The tuning is calling for about 2500us of PW i have tried ******** and warren diesel tuning same results with all tuning.

Any ideas where to go next? Seems to me that maybe now we have reached the limit of the stock hpop with this size injector.

 

[Six_Sloww]

Will it hold icp with a smaller tune?

 

[smokinstroker92]

Will it hold icp with a smaller tune?

This is the smallest tune i have for the truck it is considered a street tune. I will contact ******** and see about a smaller tune

 

[Six_Sloww]

My 205/100's hold icp on my race tune.. But they could be built different so that's not saying much.

Really disappointed that these modded pumps really aren't getting great reviews

 

[KCTurbos]

Have you done a leak down test yet?


What is IPR DC at WOT? 85? 89?

 

[Cutting-Edge Diesel]

Really disappointed that these modded pumps really aren't getting great reviews

The thumper 2s I have installed have done awesome! But havnt had any thumper 1s I had a customer who shelled a thumper 2 on the dyno but the replacement seems to be doing great.

 

[Six_Sloww]

I know of a few that have crapped the bed. One of them was a buddy, died with about 50 miles on it.

Time will tell, I hope they are doing much better than they seem.

 

[smokinstroker92]

Have you done a leak down test yet?


What is IPR DC at WOT? 85? 89?

Iv pressure tested the system with shop air, no leaks. The ipr duty cycle is 94-95% at wot new ipr did the same thing with the old one

 

[KCTurbos]

Im not trying to stir the pot... but I have also heard of a ton of issues/failures with all brands of the new style upgraded HPOPs. Some were complete failures and others could not hold ICP and then switched back to stock and had better ICP. I hope it all gets figured out because I was wanting to switch to a single pump because of the issues I was having with my twin pump setup.


2.5ms of PW is kinda high IMO. Most tuners I know shoot for around 2.0-2.4ms. Also with 100% nozzles you only need about 1.8-2.0ms of PW to dump the full 205cc with 100% nozzles. Anything over that and you are just wasting ICP.


Have someone make you a race tune with around 1.9ms of pw and see how it does.

 

[smokinstroker92]

Yes that was high imo too. I have some tunes to try now that are 1.3, 1.5, 2.0. The stock pump held better icp than the thumper 1. The part that pisses me off is this pump was sent back to RCD and "tested" less than 100 miles ago and j was charged to do so. I will have some more updates when I try these tunes I have now. I chased my tail big time replacing parts and rebuilding this after the pump and inj were tested thinking it was a leak somewhere when the pump was the issue the entire time

 

[MorganY]

The injectors are using too much oil, you're only fix besides an injector swap is more volume. Thumper 2 might work. Duals will be last resort.

Sucks these problems are STILL happening.

 

[Six_Sloww]

But they shouldn't be.. 205/100's should be able to reach their potential with the stock hpop

 

[swinky]

Im not trying to stir the pot... but I have also heard of a ton of issues/failures with all brands of the new style upgraded HPOPs. Some were complete failures and others could not hold ICP and then switched back to stock and had better ICP. I hope it all gets figured out because I was wanting to switch to a single pump because of the issues I was having with my twin pump setup.


2.5ms of PW is kinda high IMO. Most tuners I know shoot for around 2.0-2.4ms. Also with 100% nozzles you only need about 1.8-2.0ms of PW to dump the full 205cc with 100% nozzles. Anything over that and you are just wasting ICP.


Have someone make you a race tune with around 1.9ms of pw and see how it does.

So with 190/75s what pulse width would be needed?

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

 

[MorganY]

But they shouldn't be.. 205/100's should be able to reach their potential with the stock hpop

As discussed for the last 4 years on this website..they all aren't built the same, and they do not all hold ICP.

Pull the injector apart and input the measurements if you're curious.

 

[Six_Sloww]

I'm just saying they should. IMO if you don't build a 205/100 that can hold icp on a stock pump you aren't doing a great job because who the hell is planning on dual pumps with a 205

 

[java]

The injectors are using too much oil, you're only fix besides an injector swap is more volume. Thumper 2 might work. Duals will be last resort.

Sucks these problems are STILL happening.

Remember my "190/100s" LOL

 

[KCTurbos]

So with 190/75s what pulse width would be needed?

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

With true 190/75... around 2.0-2.2 at max ICP


That is one of the great things about live tuning on a dyno... you can slowly turn up the PW until you quit making power. You can also keep turning down PW until you can maintain ICP.

 

[KCTurbos]

I'm just saying they should. IMO if you don't build a 205/100 that can hold icp on a stock pump you aren't doing a great job because who the hell is planning on dual pumps with a 205

Its funny you say that... I don't know anyone that has 205s that can hold 4.8v on a stock pump with a descent amount of PW. I have always been curious who came up with that figure. I have helped a lot of guys build 600-650 with 190s and 205s injectors built by lots of different companies (holders, warren, MFI, renegade, casserly, etc) I have NEVER seen 205s hold MAX ICP... 190s usually drop way down also.

 

[smokinstroker92]

The injectors are using too much oil, you're only fix besides an injector swap is more volume. Thumper 2 might work. Duals will be last resort.

Sucks these problems are STILL happening.

I have swapped in another set of inj the results were the same. The STOCK pump holds better pressure than the thumper

 

[borsky]

I have 190 30's with a thumper #1 and HPODS, I can only hold ICP up to 2ms PW after that it drops off hard