manual or auto

tjl · Mar 15, 2013

Charles said:
See there... explain that part in bold.

If you're talking about the ability to manually select your gear, then thanks for providing an example of exactly what I was talking about.

As for any kind of inherent ability when towing, I've melted 2 or 3 of them down now, and my 4R100 has never even tried to get hot while taking hundreds more horsepower continuously. I once put over 15 GALLONS of water through the engine while towing for ~2.5hrs (via the water injection system) at a pretty much continuous 40lbs of boost with over 20 bales behind the truck at 75mph and the trans fluid looked great afterward. On multiple trips with the same load at a max of 27 or so lbs of boost with the ZF6 I have turned that same trans fluid BLACK, and in a few such runs the trans would eventually start popping out of 4th and/or 5th under power.

So for me personally, I'm not seeing any major advantage for towing in terms of the structure of the trans, or its ability to handle continuous power. The ZF6 is of no use other than for a truck that it's already in, and it's cheaper to just leave the pos in place and baby it around.

That's exactly what I was talking about Charles, being able to choose the gear I want when I want it is about the only good thing. I like the idea of a fully manual automatic. It's the best of both worlds.

stroker2 · Mar 16, 2013

Charles said:
The auto has 4 gears plus an infinitely variable gear called a torque converter. But if 4 isn't enough, you have a power problem in the first place.

And if you haven't ever driven an E4 or 4R with full-manual control, you really wouldn't know how those 4 gears can be used when you're the one deciding when, where and how.

I never disagreed with you. I was just explaining my personal experience which was with a stock 4r with a valvebody and a custom chip. Pulling 5th wheel camper over the pass, no matter which tune i chose, the truck was constantly shifting between 2nd and 3rd. That is my bad experience with them.

And to the words in red, that would be everything i want in an automatic if i had one but since i have a manual, the way i see it, i have all that along with more gears and all i have to do is use both legs to drive.

To the OP, if your trans is in good shape then do what Charles is saying but if you want more gears and to just plain shift your own gears then do the swap

rascal · Mar 16, 2013

Love my manual. I don't mind shifting.

JCart · Mar 18, 2013

Charles please explain how one sets up a PCS to E4OD/4R100? When I purchased the sig truck it came with an E4 with Precision Industries Stallion converter, Tugger II shift kit and aftermarket cooler using stock one too. I swapped in a V10 cooler in the bumper, with an e-fan behind it. Overheated it a couple of times and just lost confidence in the tranny, I sure liked not loosing boost during shifts and city driving. On highway I hated it as it seemed I was either on the throttle or coasting... having to the riding brakes. I like the positive "feel" of the ZF and if I could obtain that in an auto that would be on the money....

The idea of having a manual shifting auto is maybe the best of both worlds, and am looking for your valued input... for the next OBS I buy.

Thanks,

jrc

Charles · Mar 19, 2013

JCart said:
Charles please explain how one sets up a PCS to E4OD/4R100? When I purchased the sig truck it came with an E4 with Precision Industries Stallion converter, Tugger II shift kit and aftermarket cooler using stock one too. I swapped in a V10 cooler in the bumper, with an e-fan behind it. Overheated it a couple of times and just lost confidence in the tranny, I sure liked not loosing boost during shifts and city driving. On highway I hated it as it seemed I was either on the throttle or coasting... having to the riding brakes. I like the positive "feel" of the ZF and if I could obtain that in an auto that would be on the money....

The idea of having a manual shifting auto is maybe the best of both worlds, and am looking for your valued input... for the next OBS I buy.

Thanks,

jrc

Sounds like it never locked the converter. When you're in gear with the TCC locked, the truck is 100% locked in, just like the manual trans. If you never felt that positive "feel" as you say, then your overheating issues go hand in hand with what you describe.

I lock my converter at 30mph and it never unlocks again, except for downshifts, purely to keep shock out of the hard parts. It locks right back up after the downshifts and stays that way.

My truck, even in full auto mode runs up through the gears full locked as of 30mph in 2nd gear, so that 2, 3 and 4 are all 100% locked in, just like the ZF. I even have mine set so that it stays that way when you hit the brake (whatever dumb ass came up with that one is on my sh*t list) and while you're on the brakes slowing, my truck will downshift the 4-3 at ~50mph, then immediately lock the converter back up and HELP you stop!

Rideracelivemx7 · Mar 19, 2013

my trucks been a 5spd its whole life. I decided that with all my mods, DD life of a 5spd sucks and its time to enjoy life and the power a little more efficiently, bought a BTS and is awaiting install this weekend. My truck has always gotten great mileage around town and highway(less-dick driving) 18 and 22mpg. anxious to see if there is a change with the auto.

Krause · Mar 20, 2013

If you were looking for a stand alone controller, where would you start looking?

Charles · Mar 20, 2013

Krause said:
If you were looking for a stand alone controller, where would you start looking?

Start at PCS, and end there. They have a distribution network of dealers to buy through, or they probably sell direct as well.

Krause · Mar 20, 2013

Charles said:
Start at PCS, and end there. They have a distribution network of dealers to buy through, or they probably sell direct as well.

Do you have the "paddle shift" option they, or is there a way just to wire up buttons. Are you able to switch between full manual and regular automatic mode?

JCart · Mar 20, 2013

Charles said:
Sounds like it never locked the converter. When you're in gear with the TCC locked, the truck is 100% locked in, just like the manual trans. If you never felt that positive "feel" as you say, then your overheating issues go hand in hand with what you describe.

I lock my converter at 30mph and it never unlocks again, except for downshifts, purely to keep shock out of the hard parts. It locks right back up after the downshifts and stays that way.

My truck, even in full auto mode runs up through the gears full locked as of 30mph in 2nd gear, so that 2, 3 and 4 are all 100% locked in, just like the ZF. I even have mine set so that it stays that way when you hit the brake (whatever dumb ass came up with that one is on my sh*t list) and while you're on the brakes slowing, my truck will downshift the 4-3 at ~50mph, then immediately lock the converter back up and HELP you stop!

Thanks for the explanation Charles, thinking back when it was in (it may sound silly as I never drove an auto until then), I had a hard time figuring out what was happening on deceleration and the truck would just seem to free wheel, unless I manually pulled it down, meaning no engine hold back. So on the highway as example I'd be driving faster then most traffic and I'd come upon a car say.... let up on the peddle and coast so would have to apply brakes. I was always on the peddle or riding the brakes. Now with a manual lift off and the engine holds you back so the drive line "feels" way tighter and i have way more control say on icy and/or twisty roads. I had thought the TC locked up on acceleration and could feel shifts, just not on deceleration.

jrc

Charles · Mar 20, 2013

Krause said:
Do you have the "paddle shift" option they, or is there a way just to wire up buttons. Are you able to switch between full manual and regular automatic mode?

I would do a bump shift (think joystick) before paddles. Anything on the steering wheel is just a novelty in reality on a truck with a high ratio steering box requiring lots of steering wheel input when you break traction.

And yes, you can wire anything you can dream up. Not only that, but you get to decide if your device pulls the signal to ground, or applies 12v, whatever you like.

You can have it kick on a coleslaw maker in the passenger's seat when you hit 30lbs of boost if that's your thing...

Charles · Mar 20, 2013

JCart said:
Thanks for the explanation Charles, thinking back when it was in (it may sound silly as I never drove an auto until then), I had a hard time figuring out what was happening on deceleration and the truck would just seem to free wheel, unless I manually pulled it down, meaning no engine hold back. So on the highway as example I'd be driving faster then most traffic and I'd come upon a car say.... let up on the peddle and coast so would have to apply brakes. I was always on the peddle or riding the brakes. Now with a manual lift off and the engine holds you back so the drive line "feels" way tighter and i have way more control say on icy and/or twisty roads. I had thought the TC locked up on acceleration and could feel shifts, just not on deceleration.

jrc

When the converter is locked and you're in gear the truck drives exactly like you have the clutch pedal out with a ZF6. If you do not unlock the converter when you stop the engine WILL STALL...

Sounds like you had a real dumb ass calibration on that trans, or there was something keeping it unlocked in the trans, bad harness or something.

The truck should be 100% locked in when the TCC is active.

It's not a 1976 C6, lol.

Krause · Mar 21, 2013

Charles said:
I would do a bump shift (think joystick) before paddles. Anything on the steering wheel is just a novelty in reality on a truck with a high ratio steering box requiring lots of steering wheel input when you break traction.

And yes, you can wire anything you can dream up. Not only that, but you get to decide if your device pulls the signal to ground, or applies 12v, whatever you like.

You can have it kick on a coleslaw maker in the passenger's seat when you hit 30lbs of boost if that's your thing...

Yes your right the paddles would likely end up anywhere but at your fingertips when you wanted to shift. What setup do you have right now? Have you got any pictures of it by any chance?

And sorry to clarify, you can 'turn off' the manual shift and just have it do its own thing corect?

Charles · Mar 21, 2013

Krause said:
Yes your right the paddles would likely end up anywhere but at your fingertips when you wanted to shift. What setup do you have right now? Have you got any pictures of it by any chance?

I did, but webshots took a dive. Right now I still just have a little controller that fits in my hand with upshift and downshift momentary pushbuttons and a man/auto toggle on the side I can flip with my index finger. I have it on a short lanyard so I can hold it in my right hand while I correct with my left just like my right hand were on a gear shifter.

And sorry to clarify, you can 'turn off' the manual shift and just have it do its own thing corect?

Correct. I have a toggle for full auto or full manual modes. You can also run "simple manual" where it will not upshift unless commanded... except when you exceed a defined rpm limit, and it will automatically downshift for you when you lug back down. I have no use for that, so I never set it up. I either run full auto, or full manual.

JD3020 · Mar 21, 2013

I wish there were a way to do a shifter like in the newer vehicles with a console shifter, where you have your normal shifting, then you move the lever over to a different area and you have manual control.

Krause · Mar 21, 2013

JD3020 said:
I wish there were a way to do a shifter like in the newer vehicles with a console shifter, where you have your normal shifting, then you move the lever over to a different area and you have manual control.

I was thinking exactly that earlier today. You could likely whore one off a wrecked car somewhere and make it work, but I doubt if it would ever look very good/OEM.

JD3020 · Mar 21, 2013

Krause said:
I was thinking exactly that earlier today. You could likely whore one off a wrecked car somewhere and make it work, but I doubt if it would ever look very good/OEM.

Yeah. I know a F-150 center console with a console shifter has been put into an OBS and looks factory, but its still missing the manual mode.

Or you could do the 150 console shifter, and just put a toggle, or a couple buttons for the PCS controls. Or somehow put a rocker switch onto the shifter lever its self. IDK how functional it would be, but it could be done to look factory.

Krause · Mar 21, 2013

JD3020 said:
Yeah. I know a F-150 center console with a console shifter has been put into an OBS and looks factory, but its still missing the manual mode.

Or you could do the 150 console shifter, and just put a toggle, or a couple buttons for the PCS controls. Or somehow put a rocker switch onto the shifter lever its self. IDK how functional it would be, but it could be done to look factory.

What year console f150's? THe Floor sifter can be made to work in this application. Do you have a linky or a pic of this done ?

JD3020 · Mar 21, 2013

Shane(Fordman247365) did the mod, its an 04-08 150 console. Not sure if he is on this forum.

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/94...4-08-f150-center-console-shifter-96-f350.html

Krause · Mar 22, 2013

JD3020 said:
Shane(Fordman247365) did the mod, its an 04-08 150 console. Not sure if he is on this forum.

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/94...4-08-f150-center-console-shifter-96-f350.html

:shocked: Well Ill be damned, that looks pretty good ! Ive never seen a picture like that before. Ive seen lots of 08 superduty center consoles go it, but never one with a functional shifter.