MTW Stage 1 questions

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Little bit of background:

Had a 2003 turbo modified into a stage 1. Left the factory 10 blade exhaust wheel on it due to price. Put the turbo on an 03 with 175/100, studs, FICM tuning, gearhead PCM tuning ect... Truck ran like a banshee, couldn't of been happier. We dyno'd it and it made 542 on jefferson state diesel's dyno. No track times, but the hp numbers aren't really important.

We pulled this turbo off after 500 miles to try some T4 turbos. The turbo was wrapped nicely and set aside for a month until we found another truck to use it on.

Had a customer complaining of typical vane problems with his 03. We pulled the factory turbo off and replaced it with the stage 1. Truck has EGR delete, intake/exhaust, FICM tuning, Gearhead tuning, and stock injectors.
Well to make a long story short, it surges VERY badly. It did not surge with stock turbo.
It will surge 10psi under WOT from 20-30. It surges at almost all boost levels. Looks like the vanes are opening and closing when I monitor it on a scan tool.

We have thoroughly cleaned EBP tube and sensor, swapped the solenoids from his old turbo to this one, verified no boost/exhaust leaks, tried re-tuning the truck....nothing makes an ounce of difference.



Anyone have any ideas before this gets pulled off and replaced with a Pmax? I have been told by Matt it is CERTAINLY not the tuning.... so what causes this? Certain strategies just no friendly with the stage 1?

Thanks guys

 

[dohcter]

Vgt relearn done with an egr valve plugged in?
Have you tried a different vgt actuator? A couple stock trucks that have surged on me were fixed via replacing it

 

[Snake]

Derek - does that Stage 1 have a cast wheel or a billet wheel? I seem to remember there were a handful of people who had surging issues with the Stage 1 and a cast wheel, but the billet wheel eliminated the surging. Get in touch with Nate (windrunner408) and I'm sure he'll do everything he can to get things sorted out.

http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/member.php?u=1868

.

 

[Cak301]

I had the same surging issues. Tried tuning, cleaning and replacing sensors. Nothing helped. Adrian sent me a billet wheel and now I can't make it surge at all at any boost level or rpm.

 

[F-250-Owner]

Mine is doing the same thing...... I guess I need to find a billet wheel as well

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Vgt relearn done with an egr valve plugged in?
Have you tried a different vgt actuator? A couple stock trucks that have surged on me were fixed via replacing it

Yes we tried a different actuator.

The VGT relearn has not been done yet, we will try that. The valve is plugged in.

Derek - does that Stage 1 have a cast wheel or a billet wheel? I seem to remember there were a handful of people who had surging issues with the Stage 1 and a cast wheel, but the billet wheel eliminated the surging. Get in touch with Nate (windrunner408) and I'm sure he'll do everything he can to get things sorted out.

http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/member.php?u=1868

.

It is billet.

I had the same surging issues. Tried tuning, cleaning and replacing sensors. Nothing helped. Adrian sent me a billet wheel and now I can't make it surge at all at any boost level or rpm.

I wish that would be the simple fix.

This has to be something relate to the strategy each truck is running. Why would a turbo run flawless on one and surge like no other on the other truck. Maybe the current truck has other issues would be my first guess, but the stock turbo had no surging issues at all, wouldn't make sense that a simple turbo swap would give the truck new issues other than the turbo itself.

 

[Snake]

Well crap. No one brought the Easy button.

 

[DIESEL SHOP LLC.]

Running a 6.0 with 190s and stage 3 mtw. Its has surge issues until about 7-10 psi of boost also. On the note of the power-max on a stock injector truck is garbage in my opinion bad fuel mileage and very laggy. All trucks are tuned by cass at no limit tuning.

 

[DIESEL SHOP LLC.]

Well crap. No one brought the Easy button.

Hate when that happens

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Well crap. No one brought the Easy button.

Unfortunately!

Running a 6.0 with 190s and stage 3 mtw. Its has surge issues until about 7-10 psi of boost also. On the note of the power-max on a stock injector truck is garbage in my opinion bad fuel mileage and very laggy. All trucks are tuned by cass at no limit tuning.

We have used the powermax on a few different stock injector trucks, and as much as I agree it isn't the best available.... It works very well with Gearhead tuning. I have very few complaints with them, especially since we have started using the billet compressor wheels in them, that made a vast improvement.

I hope to make this billet stage 1 work, but you can't win them all.

 

[amarillo250]

from countless phonecalls with Adrian, the turbos are real sensitive, for a lack of a better word, to all the other components in the truck. Yes the strategie of the truck makes a huge impact as well. I'm in the middle of building two trucks with the stage one and let me tell you, we havent even goten to the fun part yet LOL

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Well guys seems as though resetting the adaptive tables was all that was needed. This truck is a totally new truck now once that was taken care of.

I was under the impression that re-tuning a truck reset the tables, but apparently I stand corrected.

We reset everything with the IDS software and the truck runs a LOT better. Currently tuning it with SRL to see if that changes anything, we will report back!

For any of you having issues with a turbo and surge issues, I would highly suggest a reset.

 

[amarillo250]

Great info and good news. Thanks that will help some others maybe later on.

 

[FaSSt9602]

Well guys seems as though resetting the adaptive tables was all that was needed. This truck is a totally new truck now once that was taken care of.

I was under the impression that re-tuning a truck reset the tables, but apparently I stand corrected.

We reset everything with the IDS software and the truck runs a LOT better. Currently tuning it with SRL to see if that changes anything, we will report back!

For any of you having issues with a turbo and surge issues, I would highly suggest a reset.

Guessing this is something only a dealer (or shop with IDS) can do? What would I ask them for? I just finished throwing my old modded VGT (exact same specs as the MTW Hybrid) back in since I was seeing all the love modded VGT's are getting now. I had pulled it a few years ago because I hated the surge! I was hoping the advances in tuning corrected the surging issues... :slap:

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Guessing this is something only a dealer (or shop with IDS) can do? What would I ask them for? I just finished throwing my old modded VGT (exact same specs as the MTW Hybrid) back in since I was seeing all the love modded VGT's are getting now. I had pulled it a few years ago because I hated the surge! I was hoping the advances in tuning corrected the surging issues... :slap:

I am not saying this will fix your issue....but it did for us.

Simply reset the KAM. The KAM is the Keep Alive Memory. Basically forces it to relearn everything.

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[HeavyAssault]

I am not saying this will fix your issue....but it did for us.

Simply reset the KAM. The KAM is the Keep Alive Memory. Basically forces it to relearn everything.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

I'm certain that the latest SCT firmware has the KAM delete/reset function.

 

[FaSSt9602]

I'm certain that the latest SCT firmware has the KAM delete/reset function.

Guessing my old xcal2 is missing this feature...?

Sent from my mobile gizmo

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

I'm certain that the latest SCT firmware has the KAM delete/reset function.

We have an SCT with the latest firmware and when I retuned the vehicle the KAM was not reset. At least not the VGT portion of it

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[strokin6L]

Guessing my old xcal2 is missing this feature...?

Sent from my mobile gizmo

Depends if you did a firmware update on it. I did a firmware update on mine like 4 years ago...but not sure how someone would know if in fact there is adaptive tables on it. How does one know? Also what exactly are the adaptive tables and what do they control/do? Does it deal with the relearn just after adding a tune to the truck?

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

for those curious on how well the stage 1 billet turbo runs....

Stock injectors up to 175/100 injectors, the turbo simply runs GREAT. In both applications it is a HUGE improvement over stock.
I wouldn't be afraid to run this turbo with dang near anything under a 190!