My build, looking to make 900

SSpeeDEMONSS · Apr 5, 2013

madman1234509 said:
I understand that and that obviously its not good on anyones parts by any means, but Mikes truck took that beating for quite a while. My point was, unless his ebp numbers are outrageous, he should be tuning his gate in to dial in boost and how much is needed to burn the fuel he has. I wouldnt worry about 70lbs of ebp if hes making 60-65lbs of boost. If his numbers are that crazy that he cant get his ebp down or his boost to ebp ratio is through the roof then it may be a good idea to look into bigger housings.

Are you reading what he writes? He had seen a max of 55 or so psi of boost, normally seeing 44ish and that's with 70+psi ebp.

Garrett

probably getting paid at work to post this from my bionic

78f100 · Apr 5, 2013

Erikclaw said:
More boost doesn't necessarily mean more power. I believe a lot goes into it, ported heads and a cam can make for lower boost numbers.
A few have ran big numbers with stock internals and a few have not. Everyone has their own opinions on whether it is necessary to build the lower end when going big. Since I don't have the convenience of a diesel shop on my property I chose to cover my ass. Too much damn money to rebuild these bitches and I don't want to go through that again.

I understand that more boost doesnt always mean more power but I would think I should see more than 44 on the run I did yesterday. Ebp was 70 to 71 at 44psi so I have some issue to figure out.
I have IH coated pistons but went with new stock rods and don't want to bend one. I just didn't see spending 3k on rods when there are lots of 6.4's out there making 900-1000hp on stock rods. I have the place to do it at home but I sure dont want to have to do it again either.

I just picked up the stuff to make a better pressure tester, I hope to get it sorted out today. The power is there even with the lower boost #s but I want it so I dont have to worry about whatching the guages constantly. There is no way to keep a eye on the sct while trying to hold this thing straight...LOL

Fast-6.0 · Apr 5, 2013

madman1234509 said:
But again, if youre seeing way out of control ebp numbers, then you dont have any other choice to tune the gate based on that, but if thats the case, you should be looking into a bigger exhaust housing on whatever turbo you think is causing the restriction

The restriction is the VGT.

Fast-6.0 · Apr 5, 2013

78f100 said:
I understand that more boost doesnt always mean more power but I would think I should see more than 44 on the run I did yesterday. Ebp was 70 to 71 at 44psi so I have some issue to figure out.

Keep in mind that when you gate around the VGT it will slow down and so will the atmosphere charger. Unless you are on a dyno or at the track you are guessing. 50psi boost with stock turbos in nowhere near the airflow that Max-Powers are at 40. Boost is far from everything.

Your backpressure is at the VGT, the only way to use that excess backpressure is to feed it in between the stages. In your setup you dump it to the downpipe. So not an option.

The Max-Power sets making 60+ psi are typically running larger nozzles and sometimes VGT tuning.

I say tighten the gate up to let both chargers run harder. Sometimes in the quest for backpressure we dump the gate too early and the truck wont make as much power. You really only care about the backpressure numbers above 3000 rpm. Keep backpressure below 80psi is my suggestion.

Fast-6.0 · Apr 5, 2013

madman1234509 said:
I feel after head studs these trucks can handle some serious boost/ebp numbers. Mike@MPD was pegging 100lb boost and bp gauges with stock valve train.

It may not hurt to get yourself some 100lb mechanical boost and ebp gauges.

And what was Mike's power output? High bp and boost with low power doesn't mean much. He just took off his II pump so he didn't have a ton of fuel.

Cylinder pressure is what bends things, and it is affected by boost and backpressure. Shone's motor bent the stock rods at 1000hp. Tony's motor has IH pistons and 110hp injectors so his cylinder pressure will be lower than Shone's.

Mikes rods bent at 150psi of bp and 1000+ hp.

78f100 · Apr 5, 2013

Well looks like I might have to pull the turbos, I have a boost leak on the hp turbo where the housing bolts together. With about 15 psi of air its leaking around the top bolts that I can see, confirmed with soapy water.

Edit; talked to Aaron at precision turbo he said its gonna leak there as there is no seal?

madman1234509 · Apr 5, 2013

Fast-6.0 said:
Your backpressure is at the VGT, the only way to use that excess backpressure is to feed it in between the stages. In your setup you dump it to the downpipe. So not an option.

The Max-Power sets making 60+ psi are typically running larger nozzles and sometimes VGT tuning.

I say tighten the gate up to let both chargers run harder. Sometimes in the quest for backpressure we dump the gate too early and the truck wont make as much power. You really only care about the backpressure numbers above 3000 rpm. Keep backpressure below 80psi is my suggestion.

So he is gating around both Turbos and just dumping to the exhaust? Wouldn't it make more sense to dump to the large turbo to drive it, after the vgt starts making too high ebp numbers? You just said yourself when his gate opens both chargers slow down. Not trying to argue or criticize how its set up, just not sure how these elite kits are supposed to be set up/run

78f100 · Apr 5, 2013

madman1234509 said:
So he is gating around both Turbos and just dumping to the exhaust? Wouldn't it make more sense to dump to the large turbo to drive it, after the vgt starts making too high ebp numbers? You just said yourself when his gate opens both chargers slow down. Not trying to argue or criticize how its set up, just not sure how these elite kits are supposed to be set up/run

I talked to Tadd about this before I installed my gate. He said from his experience there may be 30hp or so lost by gating it the way I have it. It is a much more simple set up with one gate thats why I chose to do it. My truck is not a all out race truck. I want all the power I can get while keeping the reliability good, and 2 gates just sounds like a tuning nightmare unless you have dyno access.

madman1234509 · Apr 5, 2013

Got ya, thanks for the reply. Actually I think you mentioned that way earlier in the thread

. So back on topic, it's supposed to be normal for it to leak?? Did you test any other spots for air bubbles?

78f100 · Apr 5, 2013

I cant hear/see any others. Shane tested his the same way and said his don't leak there. Don't seem normal to me but precision made them so I would assume they should know:shrug:

madman1234509 · Apr 5, 2013

Yea I wouldn't think a turbo housing should leak, doesn't really make much sense....

78f100 · Apr 6, 2013

All right guys I need some help. I changed springs in the W/g from 1.4 to 1.2bar adjusted the reg all the way down. I hit 77 total-63 actual psi ebp but only like 34 psi boost. Its way down on power, this was running gearhead street. I loaded IDP extremex with about the same results. Why is my ebp so high? If I tune the the ebp to where it needs to be I loose tons of power. Its a beast with the ebp pegging the sensor but I know it cant stay like that.
Do I just need to go ahead and double gate it? Or do I have other issues?
I am gonna try to monitor vgt on my ae tomorrow? Could it be the vgt tuning?

White_monster · Apr 6, 2013

Do what we discussed and report back ASAP.

Erikclaw · Apr 6, 2013

sensor problem??

White_monster · Apr 6, 2013

Wrong boost reference source. Vgt is going nuts trying to drive since the gate is open way to early.

Erikclaw · Apr 6, 2013

Ahhh, that could cause some strange readings.

White_monster · Apr 6, 2013

Ya. Boost will be down but ebp will be up to the normal range since the vgt will close up the veins.

78f100 · Apr 6, 2013

It didn't help Shane. I just ran it ebp was 82 overall and boost only 30 psi. This was on IDP extremex. Using the boost ref off the cac tube. I think I am going to remove the bov completly and also monitor the vgt tomorrow if I get a chance.

I have to be loosing boost some where, its smokey on the GH tune and really smokey on the IDP tune.

If I have the bp where it should be my truck feels about like it did with just a tuner, when its pegging the sensor it runs like a raped ape but still pretty low boost.

I know its just something simple but its :fustrate: