Needing even bigger injectors

Purdue_stroker · Dec 30, 2013

I'm tired of getting smoked at all the pulls by 800+hp Chevys and dodges. I'm gonna swap out the s363 for a s463, intake manifold, and swap out the 225/100s for something bigger. You guys think some 375 hybrids will break me into the 850hp range? I know I'm just putting off the inevitable of building an all out motor, but I'd like to run one more summer before doin that

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strokin6L · Dec 30, 2013

Idk Jason...that's a lot of fuel man. I don't think you really need to go that big. Cause I think a smaller injector will be more efficient and yet still yield just as much power. No need for all the fuel if you can't burn it...ya know. Not to mention will that dieselsite adrenaline HPOP keep up with the oil? How about some 285/150 hybrids?

Purdue_stroker · Dec 30, 2013

strokin6L said:
Idk Jason...that's a lot of fuel man. I don't think you really need to go that big. Cause I think a smaller injector will be more efficient and yet still yield just as much power. No need for all the fuel if you can't burn it...ya know. Not to mention will that dieselsite adrenaline HPOP keep up with the oil? How about some 285/150 hybrids?

I agree it's a big jump, but what are some numbers being put down on 285s with a single charger? (not a super big one on top of that) and Trent Krulik was holding icp with the same hpop and 345 RCD hybrids

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strokin6L · Dec 30, 2013

Yeah I knew he was running the dieselsite adrenaline pump but wasn't sure if he was holding ICP with those big hybrids. Just seems like a lot for the charger idk. Might wanna ask Jared or josh at RCD. They're truck pulling guys...so they'd know more than anyone i'd think! How much HP does your truck make now you think?

Purdue_stroker · Dec 30, 2013

strokin6L said:
Yeah I knew he was running the dieselsite adrenaline pump but wasn't sure if he was holding ICP with those big hybrids. Just seems like a lot for the charger idk. Might wanna ask Jared or josh at RCD. They're truck pulling guys...so they'd know more than anyone i'd think! How much HP does your truck make now you think?

Dynoed 630 last spring exactly how it sits now

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strokin6L · Dec 30, 2013

I know Jesse warren was around 800ish before he put bigger injectors and his twin hpop on his truck. But he pulls 2.6 with a S480 sleeved down to meet turbo ruIes i think. The ported intake will really help but I don't think the 463 is gonna push enough air to make the power. The heads are a huge restriction. A big improvement that'll really help ya reach that HP goal will be RCD's CNC ported and polished heads. Not to mention make ya be able to run a bigger injector that'll help ya burn that fuel to make that extra power

peixinho · Dec 30, 2013

IMO I would not go quite so big and I would not go with hybrids. You will more than likely sacrifice injection pressure at that point which could actually cause you to lose power. I would stick with conventional injectors and monitor ICP to make sure it is holding. If you adrenaline pump cannot keep up then I would add a helper/twin hpop. Maybe go with 285/100 or 300/100. I know we have talked in PMs lately and a lot of guys have been making pretty good power on smaller injectors. I think a lot of it has to do with keeping the injection pressure up there.

The 6.0 can't manage to sacrifice anything... so I would keep injection pressure as high as possible to keep your atomization up there. Also I hear Jesse Warren has new spool valve and solenoid that will help to dump a lot more fuel! Might also be something to look into.

I also think a ported intake manifold is a great idea. I hear great things about the Windrunner performance intake manifold (some people dropped 200 degrees egts)

A port and polish on the heads will also help out a ton.

I like the s480 turbo sleeved down idea... that might be the best bet

strokin6L · Dec 31, 2013

Charlie...last I saw Jesse had new solenoid coils to help with striction. I haven't seen or heard anything about a different spool valve to dump more fuel.

sonic_superduty · Dec 31, 2013

Chris they are a thing of beauty, Jason get ahold of me

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strokin6L · Dec 31, 2013

And being a smaller pulling class...I don't know what the rules are for Jason's class. A small class might not allow for dual pumps such as a high pressure cp3 for the dodge/duramax or a dual hpop for the powerstroke

peixinho · Dec 31, 2013

strokin6L said:
Charlie...last I saw Jesse had new solenoid coils to help with striction. I haven't seen or heard anything about a different spool valve to dump more fuel.

I am not sure exactly what he does yet... and/or if he is offering it to the public. But I saw this on his Facebook.

Injectors to be run in our puller next season. I'm not going to let a lot out on the secrets of it but the numbers are below.

Big flow is all in the spool valve.

We had to lower rpm on some tests to hold 4000icp.

All at 4000icp
500cc 300% nozzle
Stock spool valve
2.4ms 2600rpm 340cc
-------
Modified spool valve
1.8ms 3400rpm 390cc
2.4ms 2600rpm 440cc
2.8ms 2600rpm 460cc

I am going to get a hold of him this week and ask about it...

peixinho · Dec 31, 2013

strokin6L said:
And being a smaller pulling class...I don't know what the rules are for Jason's class. A small class might not allow for dual pumps such as a high pressure cp3 for the dodge/duramax or a dual hpop for the powerstroke

I am not personally into pulling trucks so this is just heresay... but i have talked with people that say one of the beautiful things about the 6.0 powerstroke is they are allowed to use dual HPOP because of the heui injection (Dmax and cummins are not allowed to use dual fuelers) But since technically this is not a fueler but an oil pump. That probably changes from class to class and area to area... but definitely something to look in to

Breaking Habits · Dec 31, 2013

I recently tested a very large conventional set of injetors for a customer, and they couldnt move the fuel, thats for sure. I think people believe that if the injector measures a certain displacement that means it can automatically move that much fuel, which I dont find to always be true.. Also, the logic that a conventional will hold ICP better than a Hybrid seems a little backasswards to me..

Jason,

Heres my biggest thing.

Your cylinder heads are going to kill you at this point unless you do some serious work to them, and even at that point they arent duramax heads.

You cant stay 2.5" Class and run a cheater hx60 like you can in 2.6.

Were it me, I would get a set of intake manifold like MPD run, a really good 463, and a set of 285 Hybrids and see how it runs.

I think it'll wake up quite a bit.

Jared

peixinho · Dec 31, 2013

Jared @ River City Diesel said:
Also, the logic that a conventional will hold ICP better than a Hybrid seems a little backasswards to me..

Jared

You don't hold ICP better with conventionals it is actually the opposite... but you can have better fuel injection pressure with convetionals. The reason Hybrids hold ICP better is because they change the HPO to Fuel injection pressure ratio. That means that even at full ICP hybrid vs convetional... the conventional will have better fuel injection pressure.

So if you were able to hold full ICP then the convetional would have better injection pressure, better atomization, potentially lower egts, and run more efficient.

Sorry if it came out wrong earlier

SmokedF747 · Dec 31, 2013

Do alot of guys run large conventionals? I'm asking because I plan on trading my truck in and I was contemplating putting the injectors back to stock and a stock turbo and selling my 300/100 mpd conventionals they have 4,000 miles on them, I will be getting into a 6.7 soon, wasn't sure if it would be worth it (meaning enough market for them to sell?)
sorry to derail, its just rare that big conventionals come onto the forums (that i see atleast)

peixinho · Dec 31, 2013

you can sell anything at the right price... maybe have someone send you the stock injectors and cash and swap them out.

I personally feel that medium conventionals are going to be making a come back soon... but 300/100 is pretty big

SmokedF747 · Dec 31, 2013

yeah I know, too big for a 366 haha. but I have fuel pulled so its not a smokey mess. Maybe I will swap them out, thanks for the info!

Purdue_stroker · Dec 31, 2013

They opened up 2.5 last year to allow dual pumps for everything, and Jared is correct, no cheater turbos. Must be a true 2.5" inducer. A s463 is as big as you can go. That's the only major thing separating 2.5 from 2.6 really

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strokin6L · Dec 31, 2013

Like Jared and I mentioned...work done to heads with the ported intake and some 285's man. I think that'll be a really nice setup for a 2.5 class. Is water injection legal? We can use water here...but only water...no washer fluid.