No Start, No oil Pressure- Stumped

rdnkbowhuntr · Mar 5, 2016

99.5 7.3L 300K mi, truck died after accelerating from a stop a couple weeks ago. No jerking just slowly died, no power, and no previous symptoms to show there was any issues. It wasnt getting any high pressure oil pressure. Oil was at the add mark of the hashes of the stick, I was due for an oil change, so it got all new Rotella T5. Still the same thing, no HPO. Reservoir was empty so I refilled it and the truck fired and ran horrible, I assumed it was just air, for about 5 min. Then died, reservoir was empty again. I refilled it and I got oil shooting out the reservoir test port during cranking. Replaced IPR, ICP and CPS, still nothing. I only use Motorcraft filters.
I pulled the HPOP and it had brass shavings coming through the front seal. I sent it back to Joey at Terminator, it was only 18mos old. He said it was bad and appeared it wasnt getting any oil. So while Joey was doing his thing, I pulled all 8 injectors and replaced all O-Rings and brass washers from Alliant and rubbed them down with scotch brite pads to clean them up. Truck has 8-AD injectors. I cleaned the cups using a brass brush, everything looked brand new. I have never opened the vlave covers in the 300K miles so I took this time to put 8 new motorcraft glowplugs in, VCH and UVCHs. I pulled the Melling LPOP and replaced it with a new one, even though it looked fine and was only 2 years old. I also installed a new quick fill check valve, spring and ball bearing in the drivers side head, the new spring was about 1/4" longer than the old.
I got the pump back from Joey and got it installed, put new HPOP feedlines on the truck and cant get any substantial pressure built. I pulled the oil lines and I have residual oil when they are disconnected. The reservoir stays full, no oil is coming out the injectors spouts when cranking, and when I remove the ICP after cranking it has residual pressure still in the head. Everything in the valve train is still intact and moving appropriately. I am seeing 67% IPR duty cycle and only about 200psi on HPO, while cranking right now. Not that it matters but my fuel system is maintaining 70psi. With the ICP disconnected the truck is showing about 2600psi and 67% duty cycle during cranking. I have a custom burned chip from larz at ******** and I have tried removing the chip, changing the settings, nothing seems to matter.
I removed the oil filter and the check valve is down and has good tension. Oil is pumping out the filter adapter when cranking.
I am stumped right now. I have also overfilled the truck with oil, about 3 qts, and jacked the rear up about 1 ft and still no difference. When I remove the test port on the reservoir I am not getting oil when cranking, but the reservoir is staying full and not draining down.
Any feedback or things I have missed before I am forced to pay a shop, something I have never done. I only have a bluetooth adapter and TorquePro on my phone so I am limited on some scanning. I am not getting any hard codes.

DEEZUZ · Mar 5, 2016

How long are you cranking for?

rdnkbowhuntr · Mar 5, 2016

I will crank for as long as I can, usually about 45 seconds. Pressure will start at 0, then slowly build to about 190 and fluctuate 190-200 after about 15 seconds then stay there. I have the battery charger hooked up to keep the batteries up, but I have a new set to replace these once I get it running. Currently running Optima Re Top Starting Batteries.

ToMang07 · Mar 5, 2016

Have you replaced the IPR yet?

ToMang07 · Mar 5, 2016

rdnkbowhuntr said:
I will crank for as long as I can, usually about 45 seconds. Pressure will start at 0, then slowly build to about 190 and fluctuate 190-200 after about 15 seconds then stay there. I have the battery charger hooked up to keep the batteries up, but I have a new set to replace these once I get it running. Currently running Optima Re Top Starting Batteries.

Watch your voltage, if it gets down to 10.5 cranking it'll never fire, regardless.

rdnkbowhuntr · Mar 5, 2016

Tracking all, right now I'm trying to solve no pressure issue. The IPR, CPS and ICP are brand new. I tried using the old ones also just becuase still no change. I replaced them as precautionary. With initial diagnoses.

David N · Mar 5, 2016

rdnkbowhuntr said:
I will crank for as long as I can, usually about 45 seconds. Pressure will start at 0, then slowly build to about 190 and fluctuate 190-200 after about 15 seconds then stay there. I have the battery charger hooked up to keep the batteries up, but I have a new set to replace these once I get it running. Currently running Optima Re Top Starting Batteries.

I'm assuming you're talking about 200 psi of ICP? Ill bet money that pump is bad. Not knocking Joey here, but I just had a factory HPOP that did the same exact thing, only it would do it at operating temperature. My bad pump would only make 200 psi. Exact same symptoms as your describing. I changed everything oil related I could and lastly I bought a new pump-and that fixed it.

Arisley · Mar 5, 2016

Stick a mechanical gauge on there and monitor real low pressure oil. Start at the beginning.

UNLIMITED_DIESEL · Mar 5, 2016

Get a mechanical gauge that goes to 5,000 PSI and a hose that will plug into the heads and/or pump. The heads are -5 ORB, the pump is -6 ORB. Get some -6 ORB plugs also. Using the gauge and the plugs you should be able to cap each side of the pump off and see if you have a leak on either side of the engine. If you don't see a change in either side, get a fitting that will screw into the pump and attach to your 5,000 psi gauge, then deadhead the pump using the -6 plugs, and see what the pressure of just the pump is. You can make a jumper harness for your IPR to command 100% DC by using a connector from one of your old UVC harnesses. Then connect it straight to the battery. That will eliminate the factory wiring, PCM, etc. don't leave it wired to the battery for long or you'll burn it up, but it's a good way to check real quick to make sure that it's working. Also, get a 0-100 PSI mechanical gauge and an adapter to screw into the reservoir, check your pressure there and at the oil filter housing. The thread at the reservoir is -4 ORB. I have seen issues with the timing cover cause oil pressure to not be fed to the reservoir. The reservoir will still "hold" oil there because of the check ball in the block, but it won't receive any additional oil from the LPOP because of an internal leak in the timing cover back to the crankcase.

rdnkbowhuntr · Mar 5, 2016

I will have to wait til Monday to see if I can find hydraulic fittings around here.
I did pickup a mechanical oil pressure gauge and run it off the 1/8in port on the Oil Cooler/Oil Filter Head. I am seeing 30psi on the LPO system there. After long cranks when the oil gauge climbs so does the oil pressure gauge on the dash (to normal operating range).

Magnum PD · Mar 5, 2016

Is the HPOP gear and bolt tight?

BS Hauler · Mar 6, 2016

This is what I was thinking also.

rdnkbowhuntr · Mar 6, 2016

Yes, access cover is still off. That was one of the first things I checked.

rdnkbowhuntr · Mar 7, 2016

After tracking down fittings today. I was able to see 45psI on top of the reservoir and at the oil cooler, equal presure with two gauges running. No pressure in either head or the pump until I put 12v to the IPR manually. Then the truck will start right up. With 12V direct to the IPR the pump over shot the 5000psi mark on the gauge.
With the key in the on position I am getting 12V at the IPR on the yellow/red stripe wire.
But with the IPR hooked to the factory harness it won't run. Regardless of whether the ICP is connected or not.

rdnkbowhuntr · Mar 7, 2016

Assuming the IPR is good since I am showing 12V with keyon. And applying 12V directly to the IPR allows the truck to start. CPS plugged or unplugged doesn't matter. I traced continuity from the IPR through the 42pin at the left valve cover and through to the PCM, it's all good. Viewing the PCM through the OBD port it is showing default 14% at key on and climbs to 67% while trying to start. The only way to get the truck to run is fully close the IPR manually. I am showing good pressure on both heads and the pump. I'm stumped again.

Magnum PD · Mar 7, 2016

May wanna try another Hpop pump.

David N · Mar 7, 2016

Magnum PD said:
May wanna try another Hpop pump.

Bingo! I'd bet thats your problem.

rdnkbowhuntr · Mar 8, 2016

So tonight after speaking with a friend, tested a theory that the pump Joey just rebuilt is inefficient til it reaches higher RPMs. Keep in mind everytime I have been cranking it has been with a 30amp charger on both batteries so they hold 13-14 volts. I disconnected the glowplugs and cranked the motor. After I hit 45psi on the reservoir, I shot some John Deere ether in the intake (with everything factory connected) and the truck fired right up and would only run on bursts of ether. Then died once the RPM range dropped back down.
So needless to say I spoke to another dealer tonight and he is putting me a pump in the mail tomorrow. I will clean out the new IPR I installed and get this beast back on the road this weekend hopefully.

Magnum PD · Mar 8, 2016

Either is bad for these motors.

bruce · Mar 8, 2016

rdnkbowhuntr said:
So tonight after speaking with a friend, tested a theory that the pump Joey just rebuilt is inefficient til it reaches higher RPMs. Keep in mind everytime I have been cranking it has been with a 30amp charger on both batteries so they hold 13-14 volts. I disconnected the glowplugs and cranked the motor. After I hit 45psi on the reservoir, I shot some John Deere ether in the intake (with everything factory connected) and the truck fired right up and would only run on bursts of ether. Then died once the RPM range dropped back down.
So needless to say I spoke to another dealer tonight and he is putting me a pump in the mail tomorrow. I will clean out the new IPR I installed and get this beast back on the road this weekend hopefully.

All ether does is tell you that you have compression. You can unplug the ipr, idm, pcm ect and it will still fire on ether.