Port and Polish. Is it worth it?

bluedevilslax · Nov 8, 2013

Alright everyone. I am in the process of getting parts and money together for a large build that will be happening in the near future. I have done some research and haven't really found much about people with big build porting the heads. Is that because the head flow at the max stock or the water jackets become to small?

I would just like a little more input on it since I am already have a good amount of machine work done and should just add that to the list when I drop the heads and block off at the machine shop.

Thanks Eric

bft blue oval boys · Nov 8, 2013

It seems like most people on here steer away from porting the heads. Why, I don't know. It seems to me that you would want to port them since they are such a limiting factor but idk. I guess people don't do it because of the cost?? Subbing for info

Sent from a Cummins plant, driving a TDI, wishing it was a Powerstroke

Trqmnstr · Nov 8, 2013

Im guessing due to the heads cracking near the exhaust ports, they are already a weak spot. Polish them all you want but i don't think you want them any bigger.

Im sure custom valves aren't real cheap either and then your into heavier springs probably and a cam.

Mdub707 · Nov 8, 2013

Some people do it, not very common. Our heads suck anyway, even with ported it seems like they still just don't flow anything. The intake manifold is a good starting point, those are the largest restriction. Elite sells ported heads...

onebadcoastie · Nov 8, 2013

Once you eliminate the intake manifold as a restriction, the next biggest issue is the heads. There are a few companies who offer porting and polishing but the question begs, is the cost worth the gain? Guys have made 800+ hp on 6.0 heads that weren't ported or polished.

I know for a fact I wouldn't trust any Joe Smoe to port/polish my 6.0 heads.

Cutting-Edge Diesel · Nov 8, 2013

There just isn't much material there to work with and I've heard to many stories of cracked heads because of porting. You spend all that money on it then they crack and dump coolant in your crank case lol. Just my opinion.

Mdub707 · Nov 8, 2013

onebadcoastie said:
Once you eliminate the intake manifold as a restriction, the next biggest issue is the heads. There are a few companies who offer porting and polishing but the question begs, is the cost worth the gain? Guys have made 800+ hp on 6.0 heads that weren't ported or polished.

I know for a fact I wouldn't trust any Joe Smoe to port/polish my 6.0 heads.

Hasn't Ellerton done more like 1200ish with stock heads?

Mike@MPD · Nov 8, 2013

I don't think he ever has.

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strokin6L · Nov 8, 2013

Shawn has done little over 1000 with stock heads...not 1200.

HeavyAssault · Nov 9, 2013

Reports are for the cost and effort there is little gain. The intake manifold is the biggest restriction point that can be resolved at a reasonable cost and effort.

ford rules · Nov 9, 2013

When I did my head studs I just port matched the intake and exhaust ports and took out all the rough casting flaws in them. I did the same to the exhaust manifolds.
I can't really tell if it did anything but I'm sure it didn't hurt anything.

Gearhead2012 · Nov 9, 2013

This is my first post here, I post over on the org semi frequently. There are gains to be had, but without the proper equipment its risky. I do machine work for a company that builds a few hundred 6.0's a year, I've done a few sets of heads on the side, and very mild port work on a couple. I don't claim to be an airflow expert....but I have had a bunch of people ask me about it. I'm working closely with a professional race shop complete with flow bench, sonic tester and world records to so for their 25 years of porting experiance. M goal is to develop a repeatable port profile, with flow data and dyno results to get proven gains, if there are any...and as bad as these heads are from the factory I'm sure they can be improved upon...but like cutting edge and others mentioned the castings don't have a ton of meat to remove copious amounts of material...plus the castings are very inconsistent as I learned the hard way once. Hence finding a shop with sonic wall thickness tester lol. More on this to come, I'll post about the progress and results on here and the org as things develop...but I'm trying to keep the port work economical....that's why its taking a while...trying different port profiles and the worm involved to get it there...basically testing gain vs cost.

Also, forgot to mention that I spoke with Andy warren when I was buying my trans from him, and he said they used stock sized valves, but fully ported Jesse's heads, and along with a cam picked up roughly 100 HP at the wheels, so there's gains to be had.

Extended Power · Nov 10, 2013

The heads crack too easy...why waste money on something that is just gonna be nfg the next time you take it apart?

And really...who has the attention span to actually port every intake, and exhaust port the same?
If they could be done with a CNC machine...ok, but from what I have been told, the ports are too small to use anything other than actual hands on porting.

Extrude honing is an option, but at over $1200.00 a set to port them...I'll pass.

Powerstroked162 · Nov 10, 2013

Good thread. Every time I start thinking there are benefits worth the cost of enduring for ported heads, I look at what MPD does with stock heads and I come back to reality.

There is a guy here who goes by Sonic_Superduty and he by far has the best idea so far for getting more air to the valves. Whether it's worth the cost or not in the end is the big question.

.

Breaking Habits · Nov 10, 2013

Extended Power said:
The heads crack too easy...why waste money on something that is just gonna be nfg the next time you take it apart?

And really...who has the attention span to actually port every intake, and exhaust port the same?
If they could be done with a CNC machine...ok, but from what I have been told, the ports are too small to use anything other than actual hands on porting.

Extrude honing is an option, but at over $1200.00 a set to port them...I'll pass.

We have a full CNC program for 6.0/6.4 heads..

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Extended Power · Nov 10, 2013

Jared @ River City Diesel said:
We have a full CNC program for 6.0/6.4 heads..

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Could you PM me a price please?

What were the true flow increase numbers when completed?

Gearhead2012 · Nov 10, 2013

Jared @ River City Diesel said:
We have a full CNC program for 6.0/6.4 heads..

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The castings vary so much we deemed it was too dangerous to take much out with a CNC program. Im not doubting you, im actually glad to hear someone went through the trouble to do it. What kind of CNC machine do you have? Rottler, RMC, or what's that other one...centi-something? What's do y'all charge for the process...and how do y'all get around the casting inconsistencies? Do you have flow data before and after? And how do you check the wall thickness after porting? Again not being skeptical, just curious...I haven't heard of but maybe one other shop that actually went through and developed a CNC program, and they said it was a nightmare.

Yeah the heads crack...and sure people have made huge numbers without port work...but the heads crack on the valve seat (easily fixed 90% of the time with a valve seat insert) and they crack in the injector cup/fuel passage area, making them junk...some choose try to fix this, but we deemed it was too much of a liability to worry about saving a 150-200 dollar head. I'm not saying that if everyone ports their heads they'll make another 200 HP to the ground, but clearly the heads aren't exactly stellar the way they are stock, there's room for improvement.

Most performance shops across thr country I've talked to have said they gained between 35-75 rwhp...hard to know how much of that is true, and how accurate they tested the port work independent of other mods. I'd be very curious to see what Jared at RCD says about their work. I know that if while I had my heads off (which unfortunately is common for 6.0 owners) I could spend an extra 6-800 bucks for 60+ rwhp and drop egt's considerably that would be a good investment. That'd put a lot of 175 guys closer to the 600 mark, and a lot of 190-205 guys closer to the 700 hp mark, all things being equal. Don't hold me to those numbers....just making an example.

Will it work? Is it worth it? That's why I started pursuing this option to find out, I'm going run a set on my truck for sure, if it works out, and proves to be worth the cost then perhaps other people looking for heads would be inclined to include port work in their build. I know I'm no where near first to begin porting 6.0 heads...and I think lots of the horror stories you hear of is some 17 year old with a grinder in his moms garage who has no idea what he's doing...or even worse...some speed shop with "their guy" who is a self proclaimed porting wizard and knows nothing of the 6.0 or for that matter diesel world. I know shops like warren diesel and others have had success with port work, and I've had lots of guys ask me about it on some heads I've done on the side, that's why I'm venturing down this path... to each their own.

Extended Power · Nov 10, 2013

Dont try to convince me about fixing cracked heads with hardened seats.
Hardened seats fall out. (Without being staked in...and who wants to create hot spots on a 6.0L head?)

Being there done that.

I'll just replace the heads, thanks.

ford rules · Nov 10, 2013

Im sure the CNC proting would be well over 6-800. That price in my opinion isnt worth it to gain a few horse since the heads are just gonna crack eventually and be thrown away. Id rather spend that money on something that will last for a long time. Then that is money well spent on power IMO.