Stage 1 or Stage 2 Cam?

[weekendwarriorfsw32]

Whats the biggest difference between them / will I see a difference? Tearing down the truck again and going with 225's, 71VGT, de lipped and valve relieved pistons, Springs, pushrods, keepers. I don't tow with it anymore just mostly a play truck that I drag race and sled pull with. Did a stage 1 cam in my 6.4 but did to many other things at the same time so I never knew if I gained anything. If anyone with a little foresight on to chime in would be great.

 

[strokin6L]

Not a whole lot difference between the two. Only real big thing is that the stage 2 is ground from a piece of new billet steel where as the stage 1 is a stock cam with a regrind.

 

[Gearhead2012]

Stage 2, for sure. the stage 1's as mentioned by chris are a regrind of a used stock cam, and in some cases, a cam that wiped a lobe off due to a failed lifter, and then been welded back up, and re-ground. While colt says they don't have any issues with their welded cams, there is lots of evidence of other big time mass engine rebuilders having higher failure rates with welded cams.

I'm sure either stage 1 or 2 would be fine, they both address the concave lobe issue that tears up the stock lifters... but I would prefer the stage 2...no idle quality issues, no real loss of low end torque or anything...and despite what RCD has on their website you don't need flycut pistons, as long as the rest of the valve train geomotry is right (Updated shorter pushrods, preferably corrected valve height, adequate valve recession-more than .020", and piston to valve contact shouldn't be an issue). No real down sides to the stage 2 other than the fact that it costs a little more.

I doubt there would be any real noticeable differences between the two based on their specs. I haven't seen seen where anyone has had dyno results with changing just one cam independently, no other mods, let alone changing cams out twice for back to back dyno results with stage 1 and 2. Just for the record, the cam gear is located in the back of the engine, thus requiring removal of the engine to remove the cam...and you'll have to press your old cam gear off, and press it onto the new cam (use heat, I can provide more details on that if you'd like).

 

[Super Diesel]

I know this thread is a little older, but I'm researching stage 1 and stage 2 cams at the moment, is there any more significant risk in going with the stage 2, in terms of affecting reliability of the motor?

 

[borsky]

If your building an engine especially if u deck the block and heads. id trim .001 off the pistons and del lip while your there,

this was with stg #1 cam, and I've heard stories of light contact on 6.4L's with stage 2 cam.

 

[sootie]

i had contact on a six four with stg 1 cam fyi

 

[scparrish]

and everyone goes around saying that a stage 1 is safe just throw it in there... good feedback here.

 

[KCTurbos]

If your building an engine especially if u deck the block and heads. id trim .001 off the pistons and del lip while your there, View attachment 41993

this was with stg #1 cam, and I've heard stories of light contact on 6.4L's with stage 2 cam.

Is that your most recent motor? Do you think the valve contact is what caused it to crack? Was it the same thing on your old motor?

 

[KCTurbos]

Another thing people don't think about and monitor is Drive pressure/ebp.

Those stock valve springs only start out at about 70-80lbs of seat pressure. After a couple hundred thousand miles they probably only hold about 55-65lbs of seat pressure. That means if your ebp ever gets that higher than 55-65psi then you can hang open a valve. It does not take much to kiss a piston when your valves are not closing properly... Doesnt really matter what cam you have..


if you are building 40-50psi of boost, and not monitoring EBP... then you are taking a big risk on stock valve springs IMO.


On 6.4 compounds or smaller 6.0 vgt turbos... 40-50psi of boost can easily hit 55-65psi of ebp. Bigger non-vgt probably don't have as big of an issue, but I have never monitored ebp on one

 

[Extended Power]

Why not try one of the Straub Tech cams?
They don't need valve reliefs at all.
After talking with him, I'd love to try one.
And when you say stage two...are you referring to Colt Cams?

 

[sootie]

Another thing people don't think about and monitor is Drive pressure/ebp.

Those stock valve springs only start out at about 70-80lbs of seat pressure. After a couple hundred thousand miles they probably only hold about 55-65lbs of seat pressure. That means if your ebp ever gets that higher than 55-65psi then you can hang open a valve. It does not take much to kiss a piston when your valves are not closing properly... Doesnt really matter what cam you have..


if you are building 40-50psi of boost, and not monitoring EBP... then you are taking a big risk on stock valve springs IMO.


On 6.4 compounds or smaller 6.0 vgt turbos... 40-50psi of boost can easily hit 55-65psi of ebp. Bigger non-vgt probably don't have as big of an issue, but I have never monitored ebp on one

Mine was on a freshly rebuilt six four, upgraded valve springs and chromoly pushrods. EBP gated to 68psi

 

[AirFishAutomotive]

Why not try one of the Straub Tech cams?
They don't need valve reliefs at all.
After talking with him, I'd love to try one.
And when you say stage two...are you referring to Colt Cams?

rcd stage 1 cams are new billet's not regrinds if you go that way

 

[KCTurbos]

Mine was on a freshly rebuilt six four, upgraded valve springs and chromoly pushrods. EBP gated to 68psi

I was not saying anything was wrong with your build/truck. I was just throwing the information out there. I know more than one guy that did not know the info and ended up with 16 nice valve impressions on all cylinders even with a stock cam and could not figure out why.

 

[Extended Power]

I was not saying anything was wrong with your build/truck. I was just throwing the information out there. I know more than one guy that did not know the info and ended up with 16 nice valve impressions on all cylinders even with a stock cam and could not figure out why.

....one or two teeth out on the gear mesh setup. (Degreeing the cam)

 

[sootie]

....one or two teeth out on the gear mesh setup. (Degreeing the cam)

i'm wondering that...

 

[strokin6L]

I have a Straub Technologies cam ordered for my build. Should have it by end of month I think!

 

[sideactiondiesel]

Stage 2, for sure. the stage 1's as mentioned by chris are a regrind of a used stock cam, and in some cases, a cam that wiped a lobe off due to a failed lifter, and then been welded back up, and re-ground. While colt says they don't have any issues with their welded cams, there is lots of evidence of other big time mass engine rebuilders having higher failure rates with welded cams.

I'm sure either stage 1 or 2 would be fine, they both address the concave lobe issue that tears up the stock lifters... but I would prefer the stage 2...no idle quality issues, no real loss of low end torque or anything...and despite what RCD has on their website you don't need flycut pistons, as long as the rest of the valve train geomotry is right (Updated shorter pushrods, preferably corrected valve height, adequate valve recession-more than .020", and piston to valve contact shouldn't be an issue). No real down sides to the stage 2 other than the fact that it costs a little more.

I doubt there would be any real noticeable differences between the two based on their specs. I haven't seen seen where anyone has had dyno results with changing just one cam independently, no other mods, let alone changing cams out twice for back to back dyno results with stage 1 and 2. Just for the record, the cam gear is located in the back of the engine, thus requiring removal of the engine to remove the cam...and you'll have to press your old cam gear off, and press it onto the new cam (use heat, I can provide more details on that if you'd like).

We have done just a cam swap and nothing else and posted the info a lot of work but now we know what is what from here on out. Here is the link for info-http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69852

There is no need to have any pistons flycut with our cams saves money and balance time along with piston cost and less downtime. Our cam is more but its worth it.

 

[borsky]

Is that your most recent motor? Do you think the valve contact is what caused it to crack? Was it the same thing on your old motor?

My first motor had no contact, I'd say second time the valve contact defiantly was a contributing factor to the piston failure. I was running a set of RCD valve springs. And making 35-40 psi max boost at 2500ish rpm and 30 at 35-4000 rpm. With the second motor.