forcefed6.4ford
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Ok then.
Resurrecting a pile of crap.
- Thread starter 6.0Powerjoke
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kyle43335
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not to be a dick dude, but good for you that your ebp isnt high. for everyone else such as myself that has added x amount of parts that result in higher drive pressures (camshaft that reduces valve over lap, that increases drive pressure, etc) things like that. we need a gate.
just because you dont, doesnt mean no one else will!!
knowing why you do or dont need a gate is half the battle....
Which turbos and what are your mods?
webb06
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It says 71/59
Yeah, I know. I was referring to brand.
Tree Trimmer
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after the thread i had a while ago, i'd rather not go into it.
.......stock replacement 71/59
as for mods.
de-lipped and coated pistons, lowered compression 1 full point.
hardened seats with a valve job, new seals/guides etc etc
new lifters
stg 1 valve springs
stg 2 push rods
stg 1 cam spec'd for towing with some playing
rcd style intake. bought a new one and machined the plugs out.
no limit cold side and intake
arp head studs
ccv reroute
gearhead tunes on a livewire
stock trans
all on 100% stock fuel, 120k on all fuel system. maintains his commanded 26-27k rail on any tune i have from him, or any tune i have of innovative's preloaded.
there is zero lag, lights literally instantly from a dead dig, and as i said, in anything more than a just over stock mild tune, i over speed the turbo's. i need both a wastgate, and larger turbos.
we knew when we did mine, that the 71/59 was going to be close to to small but we thought it would be ok. and it is ok.....in a mild tune. generally see boost in the low 50's pedal to the floor, though it has touched low 60's a few times. imo, thats to much to expect from those turbo's. really, any 71/59. the PR is just to much for the amount of air your asking it to flow.
which don't get me wrong. my current mild tune is more than anyone really needs on the street. it feels in comparison to my hot street/kinda race tune before the internal work. driving on a dry street in the summer is like driving in the snow in the winter if you feel like having a heavy foot.
when i put my race tune in, it has to be in 4wd, or there is no forward progress in a timely manner. it sits very still, or when you get it rolling, it starts to slow down as the rubber starts to melt.
i'm very happy with the end result of where my truck is now.
i'm going to do exhaust manifolds/up pipes and a wastegate hopefully this spring, along with larger turbo's hopefully in the fall/winter of next year and call it a day.
.......stock replacement 71/59
as for mods.
de-lipped and coated pistons, lowered compression 1 full point.
hardened seats with a valve job, new seals/guides etc etc
new lifters
stg 1 valve springs
stg 2 push rods
stg 1 cam spec'd for towing with some playing
rcd style intake. bought a new one and machined the plugs out.
no limit cold side and intake
arp head studs
ccv reroute
gearhead tunes on a livewire
stock trans
all on 100% stock fuel, 120k on all fuel system. maintains his commanded 26-27k rail on any tune i have from him, or any tune i have of innovative's preloaded.
there is zero lag, lights literally instantly from a dead dig, and as i said, in anything more than a just over stock mild tune, i over speed the turbo's. i need both a wastgate, and larger turbos.
we knew when we did mine, that the 71/59 was going to be close to to small but we thought it would be ok. and it is ok.....in a mild tune. generally see boost in the low 50's pedal to the floor, though it has touched low 60's a few times. imo, thats to much to expect from those turbo's. really, any 71/59. the PR is just to much for the amount of air your asking it to flow.
which don't get me wrong. my current mild tune is more than anyone really needs on the street. it feels in comparison to my hot street/kinda race tune before the internal work. driving on a dry street in the summer is like driving in the snow in the winter if you feel like having a heavy foot.
when i put my race tune in, it has to be in 4wd, or there is no forward progress in a timely manner. it sits very still, or when you get it rolling, it starts to slow down as the rubber starts to melt.
i'm very happy with the end result of where my truck is now.
i'm going to do exhaust manifolds/up pipes and a wastegate hopefully this spring, along with larger turbo's hopefully in the fall/winter of next year and call it a day.
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Thanks. my reason for asking was that it made me wonder why you would have a problem with overspeeding the turob on stock fuel. I don't think I have that issue because after 26500 miles, if I was overspeeding the turbos, I am sure it would have showed up already. I won't make this a 1 turbo is better than the other, but it seems to me if you were having an overspeeding problem, there are 3 main possibilities:
1) Crappy turbo that can handle the RPMs of the compressor.
2) Super efficient turbo which speeds more than others under the same conditions.
3) The other upgrades which increased air flow also caused an increase in the RPM of the turbo.
...or a combo of all of the above.
Tree Trimmer
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we spec'd the cam to drive the turbo hard.
my comment to him was this.
i want it to light instantly. period. response, response, response. oh, did i forget response? and thats exactly what i got. peak rpm's do not matter me. i had it built around the premise of low end hooked to a trailer light that damn turbo and get rolling i got chit to do.
we went with the 71/59 thinking it might be to small, with the understanding that larger turbo's would likely be needed.
and at the time of the build, funds were rapidly disappearing the farther we got into it, so that was also my call to go with the smaller set. even if it meant i needed to drive in a mild tune.
my comment to him was this.
i want it to light instantly. period. response, response, response. oh, did i forget response? and thats exactly what i got. peak rpm's do not matter me. i had it built around the premise of low end hooked to a trailer light that damn turbo and get rolling i got chit to do.
we went with the 71/59 thinking it might be to small, with the understanding that larger turbo's would likely be needed.
and at the time of the build, funds were rapidly disappearing the farther we got into it, so that was also my call to go with the smaller set. even if it meant i needed to drive in a mild tune.
kyle43335
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well my build list is pretty spot on for what you have done, and im in the same boat.
the only thing keeping me in (ok land) is the 488s. they reduce load enough that bp is ok with the gate.
How do you know if you have a turbo over speed problem ? what is max ok EBP ? Not trying to be off subject just want to learn. I have studs, upgrade pushrods , valve springs , smoothed and ported heads ,zmax intake.sorry to get off subject.
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Tree Trimmer
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when i let off, i can, at will, get it to do the slow "sh-uh sh-uh sh-uh" sound. i was told that that sound is bad, as its the wheel stalling out and then spinning again. hard on the shaft. its the air trapped by the compressor wheel coming out backwards through the turbo.
if i'm stuck or getting stuck, and i'm floor board deep and have to let off to throw it in reverse, it will sound just like a pulling truck at the end of the track. think the same sound, just real fast and real loud. if you been to a truck pull, you will know the sound.
the over speed, this is the way it was explained to me.
its a sound, when your again floor board deep and sometimes when you let off, sometimes when your just floor board deep. its a straight zzzzZZZZZZZzzzz. think when a flies buzzing around your ear, but loud as fk. its also a sound like one of the wheels is hitting one of the covers. but i have no contact.
i was told that when you get to boost levels higher than a particular turbo should run at, and/or shaft speeds faster than a particular should spin it can create a "pocket of stale air" around the compressor wheel. it's trying like hell to shove air in and there is simply no room left for it, so it starts coming back out, bleeding around the wheels etc etc. when this happens it allows the wheels to "free spin" and over speed.
i was also told that that is one of the worst conditions for a turbo to be in as well.
there is probably more to it, but i didnt need a scientific explanation on specifics, i just needed to understand what was going on, to better help myself to not let specific conditions happen in the future, till i get my gate, bov, and larger turbo's in the future.
if i'm stuck or getting stuck, and i'm floor board deep and have to let off to throw it in reverse, it will sound just like a pulling truck at the end of the track. think the same sound, just real fast and real loud. if you been to a truck pull, you will know the sound.
the over speed, this is the way it was explained to me.
its a sound, when your again floor board deep and sometimes when you let off, sometimes when your just floor board deep. its a straight zzzzZZZZZZZzzzz. think when a flies buzzing around your ear, but loud as fk. its also a sound like one of the wheels is hitting one of the covers. but i have no contact.
i was told that when you get to boost levels higher than a particular turbo should run at, and/or shaft speeds faster than a particular should spin it can create a "pocket of stale air" around the compressor wheel. it's trying like hell to shove air in and there is simply no room left for it, so it starts coming back out, bleeding around the wheels etc etc. when this happens it allows the wheels to "free spin" and over speed.
i was also told that that is one of the worst conditions for a turbo to be in as well.
there is probably more to it, but i didnt need a scientific explanation on specifics, i just needed to understand what was going on, to better help myself to not let specific conditions happen in the future, till i get my gate, bov, and larger turbo's in the future.
That is why I asked. It looks like the reason for over speeding was option 3 I listed. I am with you on what I want (instant spool up and I will not worry if I lose a little peak power). Since my K16 isngetting weak, I am actually going to be doing 15% nozzles with a single K16. I know I will lose a little top end but that doesn't matter to me.
Derail over.
4.0l sahara
New member
Some valve train parts from Morgan
Also one of the heads has a crack from a seat to the glow plug hole. Does anybody have any good uncut cores they would sell?
Also one of the heads has a crack from a seat to the glow plug hole. Does anybody have any good uncut cores they would sell?
Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto
New member
Some valve train parts from Morgan
Also one of the heads has a crack from a seat to the glow plug hole. Does anybody have any good uncut cores they would sell?
Lookin good!
6.0Powerjoke
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Thanks Morgan for the great service and fast shipping! We will be doing plenty of more business in the future. :clapping:
4.0l sahara
New member
Finally getting this thing going.
webb06
Active member
Finally getting this thing going.
I've seen a few of those before! Are you doing a full build?
4.0l sahara
New member
Going to get ih pistons with valve reliefs. We just bought eight new ford rods. To many other things going on to spend 3k on rods right now. I would love to get rods but It's just going to be a tow pig should be fine. So basically a full build minus rods.
