who made their own trac bars

Charles

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To the OP.... if the truck in your avatar is the one in question, then you had best forget about long links. With the almost certainly steep angle on those tea-cup springs, the links are going to have to be relatively short in order to match up with the arc of those springs. That axle is moving rearward a LOT on compression. A long, flat link will not move rearward much at all in the same distance. That will try to force the pinion to tip upward as the axle tries to move rearward while the links hold the bottom relatively still. Since those springs are probably pretty stubborn, this won't happen, and you'll be left with a rear suspension that no longer moves more than about a half inch, and you'll just bounce down the road on your sidewalls. Combine this with some super nice heim joints and in a few months you can not only have a super sh*tty ride, but also hear the clink, clunk of the joints popping every single time you get off or on the throttle, or drop it in gear, so on and so forth.


Better?
 

Worstenemy453

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Maybe it would be best to simply list the most common ways that people butcher this subject...

1. By producing a link whose combination of length and angle make it fight the arc-path that the axle naturally takes when cycling. The VAST majority of people error here by making links way too long, which makes it impossible to give the link the necessary angle, leaving the link to follow an arc with a much longer radus than that of the leafspring hanger the axle is pivoting on.

2. By thinking ______ length works on every truck with _____ wheelbase. Wrong. The determining factor is one thing..... height. Because unless you people are cutting the hangers off the frame and ordering special long or shorter than stock springs.... then the only thing effecting the arc the axle will take is the arch of the spring... which is directly related to the resting height, aka lift amount. Doesn't make one *** whether or not the truck is a reg cab, extended cab, crew cab, longbed, shortbed, doesn't make one bit of a ***. Only thing that matters is the angle formed between the bottom of the spring where it rests on the axle perch, and the hanger. That is what determines the radius of the arc the axle will travel in. The only modifier is in the elongation of the leaves as the spring is flattened out, with lift springs encountering far, far, FAR more rearward travel relative to the horizon as they compress vs a stock spring. So if your buddy had good luck with stock springs and a block with _____ length bars, and you've got 8" deavers on the rear of your truck, get ready to make a wooden cart if you build an identical set just because both of your trucks happen to be the same cab/bed configuration.

3. End hardware. People like to try and use standard spherical rod ends (heims) for a daily driven application on 7+ thousand pound vehicles that often tack on ANOTHER 15,000 or so lbs with a trailer and then don't understand why rod ends that race teams regularly throw away and replace on a sub 3000lb vehicle with service lives in the sub 1000 mile range didn't last on your daily driver. There are two viable options when it comes to a daily driven vehicle, poly joints and rebuildable spherical joints with replaceable poly cups like the jonny joint, Ballistic joints and the like. That's it. End of story. Everything else is for the confused.

4. Materials selection. This one is a combo... DUE TO the proliference of people that like to make mile long bars that fight their own suspension to the death on every bump and hump in the road, these same people have very long, unsupported bars that are binding the sh*t out of everything and encountering multiple times the stress they should. So they fold... These same people then usually grab the biggest, DOM piece they can and succeed in locking the suspension pretty much the rest of the way out and then tell everybody else how DOM is the only way because of how they destroyed other materials before. Well..... ah, yeah. If you always hit it with a 10lb hammer before putting it in your mouth you'd need a chromoly soup spoon too, lol. You can run regular old HREW tubing in an 1-5/8 to 2" varieties with great sucess if the geometry is acceptable and the subsequent length of the bar does not kill the slenderness ratio to the point of bar instability. If the damn thing bolts on somewhere near your front bumper, then no.... a HREW 1-5/8 pipe is not going to be sufficient. In that case maybe a chromo DOM 4" tube would be sufficient to lock out your suspension without failing. However, if the link is positioned like you have some sense, then more times than not, the link is relatively short in length, and does not warrant large or expensive materials.

Awesome write up. :whs:
 

8luggin

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To the OP.... if the truck in your avatar is the one in question, then you had best forget about long links. With the almost certainly steep angle on those tea-cup springs, the links are going to have to be relatively short in order to match up with the arc of those springs. That axle is moving rearward a LOT on compression. A long, flat link will not move rearward much at all in the same distance. That will try to force the pinion to tip upward as the axle tries to move rearward while the links hold the bottom relatively still. Since those springs are probably pretty stubborn, this won't happen, and you'll be left with a rear suspension that no longer moves more than about a half inch, and you'll just bounce down the road on your sidewalls. Combine this with some super nice heim joints and in a few months you can not only have a super sh*tty ride, but also hear the clink, clunk of the joints popping every single time you get off or on the throttle, or drop it in gear, so on and so forth.


Better?
Naw that's my old truck I have a 08 now maybe 4a inch lift
 

Charles

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Naw that's my old truck I have a 08 now maybe 4a inch lift


My 99 only has 4" springs in the rear with factory blocks and my links are nowhere near the length I believe you mentioned once before in this thread.


I went and measured, and they ended up at 4' from eye to eye. I realize the spring length and placement is slightly different on the new trucks, but I don't think the required link length is likely going to be 50% longer on a truck with similar spring height. On a truck with stock springs... I could see it, as the springs are nearly flat.
 

RNicol

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Those high dollar links for the ends of the bars are really not nececsary. A set of top links welded in will get the job done and work fine.
 

Lowdown89

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My 99 only has 4" springs in the rear with factory blocks and my links are nowhere near the length I believe you mentioned once before in this thread.


I went and measured, and they ended up at 4' from eye to eye. I realize the spring length and placement is slightly different on the new trucks, but I don't think the required link length is likely going to be 50% longer on a truck with similar spring height. On a truck with stock springs... I could see it, as the springs are nearly flat.

The suspension on my truck is all stock f350 dually parts minus the factory block to lower a little in the back since my springs are pretty close to flat they should be a little longer correct? You certainly have given the most in depth explanations I have seen and would like your opinion on the length you think mine should be
 

Charles

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Those high dollar links for the ends of the bars are really not nececsary. A set of top links welded in will get the job done and work fine.


As long as clink..... and clunk... every time you get on and off the pedal or drop it from forward to reverse and back again aren't considered annoying as hell. Or.... if vibration in the body and the seat of your pants isn't considered a problem.

If those aren't considered problems for a DD, then sure, top links are great, lol.

And yes, I've run them. a LOT of them. Right now I have a UTV with four link front and rear with 16 of them on it. They clink, clank and have tons of slop after offroad use, but on that vehicle, I couldn't care less. The links on my Trail truck have toplink ends. Clink, clank and again, couldn't care less.

On my daily driven pickup however.... ah no, I won't be doing something so foolish. I've got a little more sense than that.
 

Charles

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i used top links and mine don't clink and clank.

Garrett



I must be wrong then. At least in a world where mechanical components never wear no matter the service, nor stress.

Maybe you wouldn't mind telling us under what usage, and for how many miles you've been running them.

:drool:



I'm going to go make some trac bars and just use 1/2" bolts straight through some 2" square tube at each end and bolt them on real tight. Then I'm going to crank the truck and drop it in drive, listen for a clank, then drop it in reverse and listen. If I hear nothing, I will exclaim that 1/2" bolts straight to the frame don't clink and clank either.


lol.



If you're running top link ends and they have been in use on a DD for a year or more and still haven't produced enough wear to be audible, then I would want to know the brand, as they have nothing in common with the 24 top link joints I have made use of for automotive purposes to date. I would then also check the brands I have used to warn others of such an inferior product as compared to what you're using.

One last possibility is that you may simply have hearing impairment.
 
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8luggin

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I must be wrong then. At least in a world where mechanical components never wear no matter the service, nor stress.

Maybe you wouldn't mind telling us under what usage, and for how many miles you've been running them.

:drool:



I'm going to go make some trac bars and just use 1/2" bolts straight through some 2" square tube at each end and bolt them on real tight. Then I'm going to crank the truck and drop it in drive, listen for a clank, then drop it in reverse and listen. If I hear nothing, I will exclaim that 1/2" bolts straight to the frame don't clink and clank either.


lol.



If you're running top link ends and they have been in use on a DD for a year or more and still haven't produced enough wear to be audible, then I would want to know the brand, as they have nothing in common with the 24 top link joints I have made use of for automotive purposes to date. I would then also check the brands I have used to warn others of such an inferior product as compared to what you're using.

One last possibility is that you may simply have hearing impairment.

i wanna speak to chuck
 

SSpeeDEMONSS

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I didn't say mine are magic top links, just that they haven't clanked for me. Were on the truck for a year and a half, daily driven, off-roaded, hauled stuff for work. Maybe I don't hear them but either way, I haven't heard any clanks from mine.

And you don't have to be a dick about it. I know you are very knowledgeable but I was just stating my experience with them.

Garrett

Probably getting paid at work to post this from my D1
 

Charles

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What...... brand..... were..... they....



I've used John Deere and Tractor supply with no such luck. It would be nice if you would tell people what you all are using if you want to steer others down the same path.
 

Hotrodtractor

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What...... brand..... were..... they....



I've used John Deere and Tractor supply with no such luck. It would be nice if you would tell people what you all are using if you want to steer others down the same path.

Chuck - I fully understand your concerns and completely agree with you about the tractor top links - I figure the guys that run them and don't see the slop and the banging and the clanging are also the ones with the setup in a bind most of the time - even if in some instances its only slightly bound up.

Tell ya what - I'm in need of building a set of rear bars for my Dmax and am planning on doing a thread about the design and construction of my setup to help educate people a bit more about what is going on with bars - I'd love for you to join in and help me in this endeavor. I'm going to start by documenting the motion path of my rear axle that anyone can get by using a jack and a tape measure. I pretty much already know what I am going to do - but if I walk everyone through the process along with you hitting some points that I miss or neglect to elaborate on it should be really good tech.
 

00f3fiddy

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Tell ya what - I'm in need of building a set of rear bars for my Dmax and am planning on doing a thread about the design and construction of my setup to help educate people a bit more about what is going on with bars - I'd love for you to join in and help me in this endeavor. I'm going to start by documenting the motion path of my rear axle that anyone can get by using a jack and a tape measure. I pretty much already know what I am going to do - but if I walk everyone through the process along with you hitting some points that I miss or neglect to elaborate on it should be really good tech.

Now that will be a good thread!
 

SSpeeDEMONSS

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What...... brand..... were..... they....



I've used John Deere and Tractor supply with no such luck. It would be nice if you would tell people what you all are using if you want to steer others down the same path.

they were from a new holland, got them from Cook Equipment here locally. i also have some from TSC that i have yet to use.

toplinks2.jpg



Garrett
 

RedSmokey

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Chuck - I fully understand your concerns and completely agree with you about the tractor top links - I figure the guys that run them and don't see the slop and the banging and the clanging are also the ones with the setup in a bind most of the time - even if in some instances its only slightly bound up.

Tell ya what - I'm in need of building a set of rear bars for my Dmax and am planning on doing a thread about the design and construction of my setup to help educate people a bit more about what is going on with bars - I'd love for you to join in and help me in this endeavor. I'm going to start by documenting the motion path of my rear axle that anyone can get by using a jack and a tape measure. I pretty much already know what I am going to do - but if I walk everyone through the process along with you hitting some points that I miss or neglect to elaborate on it should be really good tech.

Can't wait to read this thread. :thumbup:
 

Charles

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they were from a new holland, got them from Cook Equipment here locally. i also have some from TSC that i have yet to use.

toplinks2.jpg



Garrett


Those look exactly like the ones I've used with no luck on them not wearing and getting sloppy. The teardrop jam nuts are what make me think they are the same brand.


Maybe Jason hit on the reason you don't note the clinking and clanking.... maybe they are always in a bind, or you pre-loaded them, taking them out of neutral.





On Edit:

Look familiar?

2229013790082519711S600x600Q85.jpg


1522108051082519711S600x600Q85.jpg






Whole bunch of them here:

1534404527082519711S600x600Q85.jpg
 
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Charles

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Chuck - I fully understand your concerns and completely agree with you about the tractor top links - I figure the guys that run them and don't see the slop and the banging and the clanging are also the ones with the setup in a bind most of the time - even if in some instances its only slightly bound up.

Tell ya what - I'm in need of building a set of rear bars for my Dmax and am planning on doing a thread about the design and construction of my setup to help educate people a bit more about what is going on with bars - I'd love for you to join in and help me in this endeavor. I'm going to start by documenting the motion path of my rear axle that anyone can get by using a jack and a tape measure. I pretty much already know what I am going to do - but if I walk everyone through the process along with you hitting some points that I miss or neglect to elaborate on it should be really good tech.



That is a likely explanation. These people may be running a lot of pre-load that is keeping the joints under pressure at all times, keeping the slop from showing up. It would make the truck ride harshly, but would keep the joints quiet if that were the case.

As for a write-up, what could I tell you that you don't already know? It's not rocket-science. I would say that I would draft up your measured geometry, but you don't need help there either.

If you do find an area you could use help in I will.... but I don't foresee any gaps in your efforts.
 

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