30% over nozzles

[Powerstroke14]

My truck is having a engine build being done right now. The guy working on it asked if I wanted to upgrade to 30 overs. I've always been told you need dual fuelers if you go with bigger nozzles. He said he can hold rail pressure with custom tuning on my mini max. I would appreciate some input on good idea bad idea and why


2008 f250 6.4 king ranch

 

[Groomzybanshee]

What turbos you have?.. I'd leave stock nozzles they are good for over 650.

 

[madman1234509]

I'd be more comfortable with 15% nozzles and custom tuning. 30% he's really going to need to pull fuel back. Just make sure if you do it to keep an eye on pressures. Draining rail pressure constantly can cause premature pump failure

 

[Powerstroke14]

I planned on maybe upgrading to the river city turbos. 71 and 59 I believe. I'm doing a stage one cam and hd Pistons


2008 f250 6.4 king ranch

 

[Powerstroke14]

He knows what he's doing. He own ikt diesel performance. He owns a 9 sec cummins. But wanted some other opinions


2008 f250 6.4 king ranch

 

[powerstroked08]

Your probably going to lose top end power with a 30% nozzle with the pw pulled back. Personally I wouldn't run any nozzle over 15% without dual pumps. Yes it can be done but for all of the headaches of tuning it to run correctly, its not going to be worth the little bit of low end power. Dual pumps with 60's will be much easier on the fuel system(since both pumps will be running a low duty cycle) rather than one pump being constantly maxed out causing a premature pump failure not to mention what happens to injectors once a pump sends metal fragments through them.

 

[Powerstroke14]

Yeah I don't want want anymore head aches. Went in just for up pipes and arp head studs and ending up building a motor.

2008 f250 6.4 king ranch

 

[Tree Trimmer]

what is your end goal with this?

30% on stock fuel has its place, but performance is not one of them.

tow rig, ya. same fuel, shorter pw, cooler egt's, more down low, much less up top, and the 71/59 i highly doubt are going to be large enough.

we spec'd my cam as a tow cam, drive the turbo's a little harder to light them faster, and while the turbo's spooled insanely fast, they were driven to hard for what they were, and shelled about in about 25k miles.

i now have rcd's 75/59, no wg, and their borderline same, though they pull crazy harder up top. i'm soon going for a wg, and if you go with 71/59, you better gate the hell outta them depending on how you spec your cam.

i will say, that i have ridden/drove a few stock fuel trucks, when i had my 71/59, that had same turbo's, tunes, pretty much same truck aside from color, and mine was very much noticeably more fun with the cam, valve train upgrade, and delipped pistons compared to their deleted stock motors. aside from my cam, there is nothing we did that could be really considered performance, aside from the cam i suppose. it's all reliability.

take the time to do springs, p-rods, pistons, and i did hardened valve seats. when we pulled mine down, every valve seat was cracked except two, and they were able to put hardened seats in to save the heads. was much cheaper. which gets you a valve job.

 

[powerstroked08]

Wow was the oil ever changed!?

 

[Powerstroke14]

I've had the truck for 15,000 miles and obviously not before I had it. Tree trimmer thanks for you input.


2008 f250 6.4 king ranch

 

[webb06]

Yeah I don't want want anymore head aches. Went in just for up pipes and arp head studs and ending up building a motor.

2008 f250 6.4 king ranch

That's some nasty stuff right there.....is it just sludge?

 

[Powerstroke14]

Yeah. Starved all the Bearings and they were shot and my cam was shot.


2008 f250 6.4 king ranch

 

[B585Ford]

He knows what he's doing. He own ikt diesel performance. He owns a 9 sec cummins. But wanted some other opinions


2008 f250 6.4 king ranch

I agree with Madman, Powerstroke08, and others..... you pull the fuel back far enough, you can maintain RP....but why? I agree on 15% max especially with you build. Custom tunes will be a must. GH has done a great job with my 15% nozzles and I would highly recommend him. The 15% nozzles will help with spool up and run a little hotter when accelerating. You probably won't see much else in terms of improvement beyond that unless you get it tuned on a dyno.

 

[sootie]

I personally wouldn't run any larger than stock nozzles without dual fuelers. and if you do add fuel, 71/59 is not a big enough turbo setup

 

[Powerstroke14]

ok so lets say i forget the nozzles all together and run stock fuel. add a fass150 and ported fuel rails and do a drop in 72 atmo,stage 1 cam and custom tunes. would that be enough to get me around 700?

 

[powerstroked08]

You would be close. I personally would get a fuelab over the fass if you're going to do a low pressure system.

 

[Powerstroke14]

all together then it'll be a drop in 72 atmo,ported intake, bd up pipes and manis, fuel lab with ported fuel rails, stage 1 cam, arp head studs, hd pistons, and custom tuning from my guy building my truck. i feel it should be pretty solid for daily driving and some towing. was just really wanting to be right around that 700 and tuning could be done on dyno he has a in house dyno

 

[Powerstroke14]

and what is the real advantage of a 59 high pressure turbo over the stock one?

 

[B585Ford]

and what is the real advantage of a 59 high pressure turbo over the stock one?

Possible lower temps spooling up and possible gain at the top end (and hopefully a little less EBP) since it becomes a bottleneck. BTW skip the ported rails. The stock ones work fine for guys running a LOT more fuel than you....and some people get a bad surge from them so they are definitely not worth it for your build.

Although I personally love my 15% nozzles on a stock, single HPFP (because of the improved spool up), if reliability is your goal, I am with Sootie and recommend stock nozzles due to the extra strain it will put on the HPFP. As 08 said, I would go with a Fuel Lab (or areomotive) over a FASS....definitely no AD.

 

[madman1234509]

I have stock rails.... There is no evidence of ported rails gaining anything, and a lot of people have actually had surging issues with them installed. Unfortunately adding a low pressure fuel system probably doesn't do anything for power. Unless your stock pump is tired and isn't feeding the hpfp adequately. If you can maintain rail pressure on a high tune, all you're doing by adding a pump that pumps more is just constantly recirculating more fuel. If you're not maintaining rail pressure on your highest tune, its probably because the hpfp can't maintain, not because your low pressure fuel system isn't supplying it with enough fuel.

The only benefit I see from an aftermarket low pressure system with a stock hpfp is that you set the pressure to what you want and can monitor it with a gauge to make sure it's not draining pressure and starving the hpfp. With a stock pump you basically don't know until the truck doesn't start anymore because there is No way to monitor it and no codes that correlate to it. But ultimately it's going to be regulated down to what the fuel bowl is set at which is like 3psi +- a psi or two