Help me understand injectors

[85_305]

So I'm curious how the technicalities work behind them.

a.) 160cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 3ms.

b.) 160cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 2ms.

c.) 238cc injector... 100% nozzles... will move 238cc of fuel in 3ms.

d.) 238cc injector... 100% nozzles.. will move 238 cc of fuel in 2ms.


Can one determine which truck is faster/more powerful (tq/hp)/more efficient but just look at the numbers that I provided?

I know that more fuel in a shorter window= more power/mpg/speed.... but just looking at the specs that I provided, could anybody on here say "oh injector a will DEFINITELY be faster than injector b" or vice versa?

I'm trying to understand the real "how it works" of injectors and how fuel/timing/injection timing works.

sorry for sounding like a moron.

 

[backwoodsboy]

Good read, if you haven't already:
http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21111

 

[85_305]

No I sure haven't, but I do appreciate it. Reading now :thumbsup:

 

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

You aren't going to move 238cc in any usable pulsewidth with a 100% nozzle

 

[85_305]

I see. I've heard mixed things about the 100 nozzles; poor extrude honing and all... So are we looking at 150nozzles or 200's to support a 238? Wouldn't a 230/100 still move more fuel, more quickly, than say 160/30's?

 

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

the nozzle and strictly the nozzle determines exactly how much fuel comes out in a period of time.

 

[2000wa250]

Not to mention rated CC is per 1000 shots.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[a_moore]

So I'm curious how the technicalities work behind them.

a.) 160cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 3ms.

b.) 160cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 2ms.

c.) 238cc injector... 100% nozzles... will move 238cc of fuel in 3ms.

d.) 238cc injector... 100% nozzles.. will move 238 cc of fuel in 2ms.


.

Numbers do not make any sense.

Is this what you meant?

a.) 160cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 3ms.

b.) 160cc injector... 100% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 2ms.

c.) 238cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 238cc of fuel in 3ms.

d.) 238cc injector... 100% nozzles.. will move 238 cc of fuel in 2ms.

 

[85_305]

the nozzle and strictly the nozzle determines exactly how much fuel comes out in a period of time.

So the overal size/stroke of the plunger (or whatever characteristics) have NOTHING to do with the amount of fuel injected (in terms of injection window)? So in essence, a 160/0 wouldn't be much more advantageous than stock?

Not to mention rated CC is per 1000 shots.

This is true

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Numbers do not make any sense.

Is this what you meant?

a.) 160cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 3ms.

b.) 160cc injector... 100% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 2ms.

c.) 238cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 238cc of fuel in 3ms.

d.) 238cc injector... 100% nozzles.. will move 238 cc of fuel in 2ms.

Yes that's exactly what I mean and could of sworn it said that... Good catch

 

[SDS97_7.3]

So the overal size/stroke of the plunger (or whatever characteristics) have NOTHING to do with the amount of fuel injected (in terms of injection window)? So in essence, a 160/0 wouldn't be much more advantageous than stock?

If by 160/0 you mean a 160 with a stock nozzle. It would be pointless, all you would have is extra volume, you wouldn't be able to empty it any faster.

 

[LA_Stroker]

So the overal size/stroke of the plunger (or whatever characteristics) have NOTHING to do with the amount of fuel injected (in terms of injection window)? So in essence, a 160/0 wouldn't be much more advantageous than stock?

If by 160/0 you mean a 160 with a stock nozzle. It would be pointless, all you would have is extra volume, you wouldn't be able to empty it any faster.

As long as I'm understanding this correctly I'd just like to say it a different way SDS. The 160/0 will move the same quantity as the 160/100 but the 160/100 will do it x2 fast.

 

[85_305]

If by 160/0 you mean a 160 with a stock nozzle. It would be pointless, all you would have is extra volume, you wouldn't be able to empty it any faster.

So there wouldn't be ANY gains with a plain 160cc/stock noZzle injector? Or are you saying the gains wouldn't be anywhere near as *good* a w/bigger nozzles?

As long as I'm understanding this correctly I'd just like to say it a different way SDS. The 160/0 will move the same quantity as the 160/100 but the 160/100 will do it x2 fast.

And can you see that faster empyting injector on paper like faster truck, more power, lower egt, better mpg etc?

I guess what I'm getting at is what makes an injector good for one truck, but bad for another... And then there's guys saying that 400/400 or 238/200 on any and all builds and be done, regardless of hp goals or uses of the truck. So I'm curious to know what injectors you'd use for what activity if any of this rambling makes sense

 

[TyCorr]

Unless you tune your own truck any edm nozzle over 200% is out of reach because nobody will tune it.

I had 80 and 100 over nozzles on a 175cc injector and if you were looking for power for the sake of power, look elsewhere. It was a huge improvement over stock. But not enough, in my opinion anyway, to do it just because. Even building a tow vehicle id get a bigger injector. I preferred the 80% nozzle. No more hundos for this guy, ever.

 

[TyCorr]

So there wouldn't be ANY gains with a plain 160cc/stock noZzle injector? Or are you saying the gains wouldn't be anywhere near as *good* a w/bigger nozzles?



And can you see that faster empyting injector on paper like faster truck, more power, lower egt, better mpg etc?

I guess what I'm getting at is what makes an injector good for one truck, but bad for another... And then there's guys saying that 400/400 or 238/200 on any and all builds and be done, regardless of hp goals or uses of the truck. So I'm curious to know what injectors you'd use for what activity if any of this rambling makes sense

All things that are directly related to power will increase by getting larger injectors. Mine were worn at 255k and werent working perfectly and my mileage was getting worse. I picked up mileage by going to the stgIIs.

I understand nozzle 200over and larger will penalize you in low icp situations as fuel economy will suffer. Makes sense as injection quality most likely isnt there. Ill let ya know in a few months.

 

[under pressure]

Numbers do not make any sense.

Is this what you meant?

a.) 160cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 3ms.

b.) 160cc injector... 100% nozzles... will move 160cc of fuel in 2ms.

c.) 238cc injector... 30% nozzles... will move 238cc of fuel in 3ms.

d.) 238cc injector... 100% nozzles.. will move 238 cc of fuel in 2ms.

I am wondering how you figure this pw with out using a specified icp ? Say 2500..

 

[85_305]

Unless you tune your own truck any edm nozzle over 200% is out of reach because nobody will tune it.

I had 80 and 100 over nozzles on a 175cc injector and if you were looking for power for the sake of power, look elsewhere. It was a huge improvement over stock. But not enough, in my opinion anyway, to do it just because. Even building a tow vehicle id get a bigger injector. I preferred the 80% nozzle. No more hundos for this guy, ever.

What's "edm"? I keep seeing that on this forum. And why won't anybody tune a 200% or larger edm?

I had my mind set to 160/30s for my stock turbo non-intercooled setup, and beans agreed with that statement, but I've been reading and realizing that larger nozzles get the fuel out faster and cooler... Maybe I should be aiming for 160/100s instead.

All things that are directly related to power will increase by getting larger injectors. Mine were worn at 255k and werent working perfectly and my mileage was getting worse. I picked up mileage by going to the stgIIs.

I understand nozzle 200over and larger will penalize you in low icp situations as fuel economy will suffer. Makes sense as injection quality most likely isnt there. Ill let ya know in a few months.

I think my injectors are about caked too... Another reason for getting a staged setup. I'm understanding now that the larger nozzles will suck @ low rpms/boost situations and they are a bit messy until higher rpm/fueling situations. That's bad for me because I do a lot of low speed driving and idling w/ the truck, and don't want power or mpg to suffer any.

 

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

EDM- Electronic discharge machining- Basically an electric current similar to a plasma cutter that precisely cuts a hole (.006-.01x) in diameter at a certain angle to determine the spray pattern

EH- Extrude hone- a way of polishing up a nozzle by blowing air with a fine grit through the nozzle to polish/smooth the passages.

From what i understand, stock nozzles can be EH'd to 30%, 80% nozzles are fresh EDM and can be EH'd to 100. This might be why some tuners don't like the 100% due to inconsistencies of blowing gritty air through a nozzle that used to be fresh

 

[85_305]

There's really a noticeable difference between edm and eh (power/mpg/smoke)??

 

[TyCorr]

Edm is precise. The eh is akin to taking a 3/8 hole made by a drillpress and putting a 3/8 bit in your drill and wallowing the hole out by working that bit around in circles. Makes.the.hole.bigger but.how much?

 

[85_305]

Interesting... then why are /30's so highly recommended if people dont like EH nozzles?