Stage 1 differences?

[maxtrax]

So I have been looking to get bigger injectors (stage 1 so as not to have to go big oil and tranny). I was originally thinking stage 1 single shots with stock size nozzles as that is what everyone else has done. However, when I talked to my tuner, he said that his stage 1's are larger nozzles with different springs in them but were still split shots.

His tunes have been amazing and he strictly specializes in the 7.3 and I trust his work. However, I want to know why he would use larger nozzles on stage 1s when everyone else doesn't. Will this affect the atomization of the fuel? He is pretty confident that the single shots are not the way to go. Any input on this would be appreciated.

 

[smokedout250]

Single shots are the way to go! If your tuner says they aren't then maby you should look into a new tuner


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[SDS97_7.3]

Just like Bean said in the other thread, sounds more like the tuner can't tune singles well.

 

[4duggan]

:whs:

Go with a hybrid man , I got stock nozzle injectors and outgrew them quick.

Injectors are good for quite a while (100+ K), you might think Stage 1's will satisfy you , think again .

I am still new at this so I am gonna STFU. also I am drinking and bangin this keyboard.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

Stage Is can come in both split and single shot varieties - basically its a stock injector with more stroke allowing for a larger volume of fuel to be contained within the injector. If you up the size of the injector tip - then that is what is typically known as a Stage II - the only real difference is a higher flowing tip installed on a Stage I injector.

There are many reasons to pick a single shot injector over a split shot injector. single shots use less oil than the split shot version. The single shots are far more tunable than the split shots. The biggest problem with split shots is the inability to tune the split function on and off, size the pilot, length of time between the pilot and the main shot, etc.... basically the only reason they exist were an attempt to meet EPA regs. I NEVER recommend split shot injectors - I feel they are a waste of time and money.

The preceding comments were mine and not that of Full Force Diesel. LOL

 

[smokedout250]

Just like Bean said in the other thread, sounds more like the tuner can't tune singles well.

I forgot about that thread! Do us all a favor and listen to the pro's on this site they know what they are doing!


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[maxtrax]

This is why I am confused. Ken has held the national hp record for a stock 7.3 with his tunes so I trust he knows what he is doing. If he is doing stock cc's and just has a different thinking than everyone else.... maybe everyone else is just going stage 1 just because that is the old way of thinking. Sometimes when people try something new, things are learned. That is why I want to know what the benefit of larger injectors/springs with stock cc's would be. Maybe he is on to something... especially considering he is much cheaper.

 

[SDS97_7.3]

In order to run stage ones at stock cc's they would be detuned. The reason people switch to single shots are they are more efficient, make more power, etc.

 

[JD3020]

If you have a larger "injector" then you have more than stock CC's, unless you mean nozzle size. In which case i don't see how a larger nozzle on a stock injector is going to make a big difference at all. And whats with all this spring business?

Most likely wrong and just a guess, but to me it sounds like your tuner might not know as much as he has you thinking he does. I mean if singles aren't the way to go then why is every single performance injector a split shot(unless i'm missing something)?

 

[Hotrodtractor]

This is why I am confused. Ken has held the national hp record for a stock 7.3 with his tunes so I trust he knows what he is doing. If he is doing stock cc's and just has a different thinking than everyone else.... maybe everyone else is just going stage 1 just because that is the old way of thinking. Sometimes when people try something new, things are learned. That is why I want to know what the benefit of larger injectors/springs with stock cc's would be. Maybe he is on to something... especially considering he is much cheaper.

Ken? DPS Ken? Good luck with that. Spend some time looking around, reading and researching. Perhaps specifically do a search on PSN and TDS about him....

 

[SDS97_7.3]

Ken? DPS Ken? Good luck with that. Spend some time looking around, reading and researching. Perhaps specifically do a search on PSN and TDS about him....

Some interesting threads popped up doing that.

 

[smokedout250]

This is why I am confused. Ken has held the national hp record for a stock 7.3 with his tunes so I trust he knows what he is doing. If he is doing stock cc's and just has a different thinking than everyone else.... maybe everyone else is just going stage 1 just because that is the old way of thinking. Sometimes when people try something new, things are learned. That is why I want to know what the benefit of larger injectors/springs with stock cc's would be. Maybe he is on to something... especially considering he is much cheaper.

Look around at what every one else is running for tunning there's a reason why we choose those certain tuners!


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[DZL JIM]

......However, when I talked to my tuner, he said that his stage 1's are larger nozzles with different springs in them but were still split shots......he strictly specializes in the 7.3 and I trust his work. However, I want to know why he would use larger nozzles on stage 1s when everyone else doesn't.

This makes no sense at all. Honestly, it doesn't sounds like he knows much about the 7.3. What has been accepted in the industry as a "Stage-1" is an injector with a stock nozzle. If he's using a larger nozzle then it's what's known as a "Stage-2" just as previously mentioned. Simple as that. You can say he's thinking outside the box if you want, and it's because these industry "standards" have been used for 10+ years. He should get with the program instead of confusing new customers.
Different springs? What different springs? There are no springs to change cc rating and has nothing to do with Single or Split Shots. Just makes no sense....

......He is pretty confident that the single shots are not the way to go.

Single shots are a much better, more efficient injector, period.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of really bad tuners out there who do not know how to properly tune Singles in a Split Shot truck, which is why I never recommend Single Shot conversion injectors. Regardless of the fact they are the way to go. I have been caught in the middle of that debacle more than I care to remember and when the truck runs poorly, the tuner always blames the injectors, when 99.99% of the time it's the poor tuning.

If you trust his work and insist on sticking with him, just go with what he says. Don't confuse him and get him out of his comfort zone.

 

[maxtrax]

It is funny that a couple people really knock him and claim that he has a bad record... I spent a couple hours searching and from what I can tell there was one (or maybe two) isolated incidents that people really made a stink about. Then it looks like he wasn't able to properly defend himself because he was not a paying sponsor and was banned.

Until I hear both sides of the story I'm not going to make a decision. If someone who has actual experience with his injectors/or a dissatisfied customer who had his injects... feel free to PM me the story. Besides, he wants to charge me significantly less to modify my cores than what everyone else wants.

 

[smokedout250]

^^^ I will say one thing you get what you pay for! Cheaper isn't always better! Dzl Jim is from rosewood diesel one of a few company's that are known for build amazing powerstroke injectors... If I were you I'd listen to him!

On a side note, why are you even starting threads if you don't want ppls advice? If you don't like what you here your more than welcome to leave! Good luck


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[SDS97_7.3]

It is funny that a couple people really knock him and claim that he has a bad record... I spent a couple hours searching and from what I can tell there was one (or maybe two) isolated incidents that people really made a stink about. Then it looks like he wasn't able to properly defend himself because he was not a paying sponsor and was banned.

Until I hear both sides of the story I'm not going to make a decision. If someone who has actual experience with his injectors/or a dissatisfied customer who had his injects... feel free to PM me the story. Besides, he wants to charge me significantly less to modify my cores than what everyone else wants.

You must not have been looking to hard, when I typed it into google a ton of threads came up. Most were not good.

 

[maxtrax]

Well what I originally asked was what modifications he actually does to the injector, if they work, and why do they work (or if not).

I did google it and that made a big difference considering it was on "TDS" not "PSN". I will spend some time reading through the threads.

It also looks to me that he bores the nozzles out more and that some people have been really happy with his stage 1's. With other people it looks like they have had trouble with nozzles breaking. This is something I will discuss with him to see if he has a fix or addressed this issue.

 

[DZL JIM]

...It also looks to me that he bores the nozzles out more and that some people have been really happy with his stage 1's. With other people it looks like they have had trouble with nozzles breaking. This is something I will discuss with him to see if he has a fix or addressed this issue.

Bingo.
EDM'ing nozzles is so 5 years ago.
Many, many guys blew used nozzles that were EDM'd, some from him, and just about anybody else at the time. You just don't want to do that.
With the new nozzles that hit the market 5 years back or so, they basically made modifying nozzles obsolete.
There's a reason everybody else quit doing that.
If you think you're saving money with him modifying your used nozzles, think twice.
If you want to buy new nozzles THEN have him work on them, you're paying too much!
Keep doing some reasearch before you decide, and make sure you're 100% comfortable with whoever you choose to do your work.

FWIW, I personally have nothing against Ken/DPS. What I've said holds true for anybody you may be dealing with.

 

[TyCorr]

Bingo.
EDM'ing nozzles is so 5 years ago.
Many, many guys blew used nozzles that were EDM'd, some from him, and just about anybody else at the time. You just don't want to do that.
With the new nozzles that hit the market 5 years back or so, they basically made modifying nozzles obsolete.
There's a reason everybody else quit doing that.
If you think you're saving money with him modifying your used nozzles, think twice.
If you want to buy new nozzles THEN have him work on them, you're paying too much!
Keep doing some reasearch before you decide, and make sure you're 100% comfortable with whoever you choose to do your work.

FWIW, I personally have nothing against Ken/DPS. What I've said holds true for anybody you may be dealing with.

Well put! Informative, constructive criticism.

 

[lincolnlocker]

^^^ I will say one thing you get what you pay for! Cheaper isn't always better! Dzl Jim is from rosewood diesel one of a few company's that are known for build amazing powerstroke injectors... If I were you I'd listen to him!

On a side note, why are you even starting threads if you don't want ppls advice? If you don't like what you here your more than welcome to leave! Good luck


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:whs: