Transmission discussion.

[mike@haller's]

what does ellerton run? i could be wrong but he really hasnt had much issue with his 5r has he?

 

[Chvyrkr]

What's the difference in a 6.0 power curve and a 6.4 curve?

Is 6.0 transmission success gonna translate to 6.4?

 

[kevin]

what does ellerton run? i could be wrong but he really hasnt had much issue with his 5r has he?

NADP

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Spoke to Brian at BTS about all of this, and he fully supports the switch to the 4r. For those of you that know Brian, he wouldn't just suggest such a thing if he wasnt fully aware of all the positives and negatives, and he isnt just trying to make a sale.

Just too many things trying to happen in a 5r, his exact words were he wouldnt trust a 5r over 650hp to last under a constant beating. I realize some guys are running them above that with no issues, but those were his words. He really put it on a very simple level for people to understand, and in my opinion its a no brainer after listening to his expertise.

If you are on the fence, give him a call and ask him his thoughts between the two transmissions and the future of both of them, it helped me a lot listening to the pro.

 

[Spatel23]

Im interested in more information pros/cons of each.
I can say that if something else torque converter related or not happens to mine, Ill probably switch to the 4r for the simple fact that BTS is only 250 miles from my front door.

That being said, the 4R would HAVE to be totally seamless and integrated just like factory in every way.

Does the 4R shift faster, leading to an overall quicker truck? Are there any driveabiity concerns at all? Never had a 7.3.

 

[907DAVE]

There not just behind 7.3's, some pretty high HP Fummins (more than the hottest 6.4's) are running them also.

 

[Spatel23]

yeah, I figured that. I was speaking from where the majority of them are found.

 

[907DAVE]

I could see where the guys running the singles would have some smoke control issues, but nothing that could not be overcomed with some more refined tuning.

 

[Mike@MPD]

As for the smoke control. That's 90% of learning how to drive with a single. Keep in mind that I baby mine other than the track. The directs on my trans have gone up numerous times. Other than from a dead stop the 5r shifts like a bag of @$$es. One the highway it will downshift fine. I am keeping mine as long as I can. But I have driven Craig's truck a lot and it has never missed a beat. Keep in mind that is the first one with the setup so its not 100% compatible yet. Go for a ride in it and I guarantee it with have you wanting one,

Sent from my Nexus powered by East Coast Air

 

[brooksfruge]

I am also wondering what torque converter to buy for the 5R for those of us that can't afford a 4R swap anytime soon, and since it's the easiest option right now

 

[Craig@MFI]

what does ellerton run? i could be wrong but he really hasnt had much issue with his 5r has he?

5r in a 6.0 vs a 6.4 totally different boat tcm in the 6.4 is what screws the 6.4 5r110

 

[Craig@MFI]

I hope Aaron is considering it or someone else who can help absorb the cost to make it happen.

I would be all over it if it was available

aaron has his 4r swap sitting there ready to swap

 

[twin_turbo]

trans

I just got my 5r rebuilt and so far i am really liking it. what is a rough estimate of the cost to swap a 4r?

 

[Powerstroked162]

Thia is basically my whole point mike found a converter that works so what's the point of the 4r

So I hears cost of the 4r is cheaper

What's the trans and pcs cost?
What about the cost of the input for the transfercase?

What's gunna be cost in this box to retain cruise Ect?

Out the door for the 4r with the new bell housing and a PCS, you're looking at $6500 with a lifetime warranty.

The box, Im not sure on. Its still in the works

I hope Aaron is considering it or someone else who can help absorb the cost to make it happen.

I would be all over it if it was available

4r swap. Lenco is a costly trans setup.

what does ellerton run? i could be wrong but he really hasnt had much issue with his 5r has he?

6.0 and 6.4 5r tuning is different.

 

[Fast-6.0]

Since the converters are pretty much the same inside 5R or 4R, (basically a different stator or turbine depending on stall speed) then right now that is probably the weakest link with either choice. The reason that a single is harder on the converter is that they must bypass so much to allow the turbo to light that when they lock it is hard on the clutches. This wont change with a 4R (same internals).

The 5R's weakest link is tuning! When you add a lot of power and a higher stall speed the converter won't lock (due to factory parameters). If you lock the converter right away then the shifting issues go away greatly.

Also what about shafts, the 4R and 5R input shaft is tiny. Eventually they will be the weak link, what then?? Look at the suncoast mega trans, the shaft is now quite large. That point will be reached with the 4R/5R eventually.

Just some things to think about.

Once the track opens here in april we will be testing our PCS equipped 5R more. It will lock the converter whenever we want so that should help the trans life greatly.

 

[blk350on20s]

Im hoping with updated tuning and a billet intermediate i will have no more issues. They dont sell the stock intermediate seperately anymore so replacing that all the time is a no go

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

The 4r does shift a lot quicker, so many less things have to happen to make it shift. Call Brian and ask him to talk differences between 4r and 5r, you will be a much more intelligent person after listening to the wizard speak, I would try to explain what he told me but I will surely butcher it.
Call early morning for your best chance to reach him

 

[Chris]

A 5r has clutch synchronization, always will. imo thats its biggest downfall. same as an allison. 2-3 and 3-5 will always have to remove an element and apply an element and the timing and pressures for each will have to be perfect. better tuning helps but the faster you go the harder it will get and there are soooo many variables that can change youll be fighting that battle until the end of time.

A 4r is simpler, it just adds elements. it shifts fast and never has to sync. you decide what pressure and time you want to apply the next gear and it does it.

Drive a 800hp truck with a 4r and drive one with a 48re, a allison, and a 5r, and see what one you like best and what one puts down the quickest et for the same weight and hp.

 

[Dzchey21]

Im not arguing that a 4r isn't decent upgrade just can't justify the swap to have bell housing bolts missing no cruise Ect. And then you gotta wonder how much farther the 4r can go on a small input shaft Ect. Just seams like to me its a decent upgrade but how far will it go. If I upgrade I wanna do something serious.

 

[Dzchey21]

So another question if tuning is such a big deal why not run a pcs on a 5r to level the playing field to what a 6.0 will do?