Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

cleatus12r

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2014
Messages
163
Reaction score
2
Location
Reed Point, MT
I'm putting three consecutive videos on Youtube as I type this (stupid camera won't record longer than 1:45 at a time). Since out here in the sticks, DSL is the best I can do, they won't be viewable until tonight.

All original 2000MY 2wd Reg. cab with 272K miles.
Currently -4 (was -12 last night), not driven (or even started) for two weeks, not plugged in, 250-200%, VHAE9J2 (XLE4) PCM.
 
Last edited:

IHPowerstroke7.3

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
251
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Ontario
If I already have a hydra, I could just purchase a license and a definition for my PCM if I wanted to start tuning correct? Not much support on these trucks up here, far way to go for live tuning. Truck is a stock late 99, with exhaust.
Have a 38r ready to go on, just want to get some gauges on it first. Would like to step up injector size but I don't want a smokey pig.
No experience engine tuning, tuned an e40d years ago for an f150 I had with a Baumann controls unit (similar to PCS). Figured that out without much help, know enough to know when something is gonna cause damage. I have experience with diesel engines and electronics, been a ford diesel tech for 5 years now, 8 total in the trade. Would like to learn to tune my own stuff, don't have the time off to come south to take lessons. Been reading these posts for years, always interesting.
 

cleatus12r

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2014
Messages
163
Reaction score
2
Location
Reed Point, MT
Also, Charles, I got a look at your posted calibration. It's not my place to say what's right or wrong with it if it works for you, but I could make three suggestions right off the bat although it would suit MY driving style....probably not yours....as well as clean up some cold-start issues.

I'll put that calibration in the pickup in the video and see what happens (when it warms up, of course in a couple of days). I can't promise anything will come of it though since my injectors HATE 200% calibrations for other trucks.
 

cleatus12r

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2014
Messages
163
Reaction score
2
Location
Reed Point, MT
If I already have a hydra, I could just purchase a license and a definition for my PCM if I wanted to start tuning correct?

Yes. Just download the Hydrabuilder and Hydraflash programs (should already have the latter) from PHP's website. You'll have to download Minotaur as well and then buy the license for it along with the definition file for your PCM (as you already pointed out). Just so everyone knows, the Hydra IS NOT an emulator and you can't "live tune" with it....although it's possible, quick, and easy to change one "tune" at a time on it (unlike the TS chip that takes 6:52 to reprogram every time).

Have a 38r ready to go on, just want to get some gauges on it first. Would like to step up injector size but I don't want a smokey pig.

And it doesn't have to be. I am making 220-ish HP with my 250-200% injectors without a whisp of black smoke anywhere....and making 17-18 PSI of boost with a stock turbocharger and exhaust (as well as fuel system and oil pump). I have made 513 with it but the EGT hated life and I'm sure the turbo absolutely loved running 32 PSI during the run (yes, lots of black smoke at that point).

If a "tuner" (person) can't make stock power with <200% nozzles....well.....

By the way, I am in NO WAY an advocate for 200% nozzles on a grocery-getter, soccer-practice mobile like Charles. If you've ever driven a CLEAN 300-ish HP 7.3L (which you WILL NOT GET with stock nozzles), it's plenty for most people. 200% is the ragged edge and unless you can tune it yourself, I don't condone using them.
 
Last edited:

Jomax

Active member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
8,576
Reaction score
7
Location
Arizona
I had my truck stall once, had 250/100s pulling a tractor totaling 15k threw a sand wash. Pedal to the metal all four tires slinging sand. Stopped because the trail dug so when I left off the pedal it died.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Jomax

Active member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
8,576
Reaction score
7
Location
Arizona
How would a GT4202 work with 250/200s or 300/200s??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

IHPowerstroke7.3

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
251
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Yes. Just download the Hydrabuilder and Hydraflash programs (should already have the latter) from PHP's website. You'll have to download Minotaur as well and then buy the license for it along with the definition file for your PCM (as you already pointed out). Just so everyone knows, the Hydra IS NOT an emulator and you can't "live tune" with it....although it's possible, quick, and easy to change one "tune" at a time on it (unlike the TS chip that takes 6:52 to reprogram every time).

I understand, I would need something like Tweecer or a quarter horse to live tune. I'd be doing it myself, so i wouldn't be doing it while driving anyway. Maybe if I was on a dyno but I don't care to spend hours on one. Being able to have multiple tunes however, I could have multiple files loaded at once with minor adjustments made, find the best of the group and improve on that file. Would start with stock injectors so I get the hang of it with hopefully not hanging myself burning it down. Ability to change tunes quickly without having to reburn is the reason I went with the hydra.



And it doesn't have to be. I am making 220-ish HP with my 250-200% injectors without a whisp of black smoke anywhere....and making 17-18 PSI of boost with a stock turbocharger and exhaust (as well as fuel system and oil pump). I have made 513 with it but the EGT hated life and I'm sure the turbo absolutely loved running 32 PSI during the run (yes, lots of black smoke at that point).

If a "tuner" (person) can't make stock power with <200% nozzles....well.....

By the way, I am in NO WAY an advocate for 200% nozzles on a grocery-getter, soccer-practice mobile like Charles. If you've ever driven a CLEAN 300-ish HP 7.3L (which you WILL NOT GET with stock nozzles), it's plenty for most people. 200% is the ragged edge and unless you can tune it yourself, I don't condone using them.

Having the ability to tune down to stock power levels while having the ability to have the power available when I want it and have it run like it should is why I'm here. If all I wanted was 200 ish hp all the time, may as well stay stock. I haven't driven too many 7.3's making big power, most was probably a 238/100 tuned by Bill. Not sure on power but for now, enough for me. Driven lots of hopped up 6.0's, 6.4's and 6.7's. All fun but I love my 7.3
 
Last edited:

superpsd

Active member
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
1,928
Reaction score
3
Location
Missouri
If you new to tuning (as am I still) making small adjustments and testing it out is the best way to go. I make a change save it then make a change and save it to a new calibration and so on. Then load the hydra with many calibrations as I have saved that have more tweeks as I run thru the hydra positions (loading a hydra up of its 15 positions takes just minutes). I dont have any thing currently to log with i just have torque pro. Ae would probably be a good investment I tune alot my ear and the passenger side mirror aimed at thv view of the tailpipe to keep an eye on smoke control.
 
Last edited:

N2GN2

New member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
158
Reaction score
0
Location
Montana
You can't say that. Some people have a mind for it and others just get really frustrated because it's something their minds can't work around. It's not a slight to anybody...we're all wired differently in our heads.

This was F6 vs Hydra.
 

superpsd

Active member
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
1,928
Reaction score
3
Location
Missouri
Also wanted to bring up an issue that had been brought up before. The USB extension cable when plugged in to the chip did not want to clear the J3 port case opening. I am not sure if this has been revised. I had to file down the back of the USB connector level with the molded stress relief. Then it slid in. Or you could pull the case apart and install the hydra chip I guess however my PCM has never been out of my rig.
 

dsberman94

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2013
Messages
11,563
Reaction score
62
Location
Pennsylvania
I had my truck stall once, had 250/100s pulling a tractor totaling 15k threw a sand wash. Pedal to the metal all four tires slinging sand. Stopped because the trail dug so when I left off the pedal it died.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Chances are that's due to the same reason it happens at the end of a sled pull. Converter was locked and couldn't unlock in time. So it stalled the truck. Can't find the post your referring to with your statement though.
 

TyCorr

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
15,461
Reaction score
0
How would a GT4202 work with 250/200s or 300/200s??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that would be pretty miserable for anything other than playing. Unless you had some serious airflow improvements on both sides of the forced induction system.

I think a gtr4094x would be the baddest single for a 200% nozzle.
 

ja_cain

Active member
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
4,597
Reaction score
2
I'm putting three consecutive videos on Youtube as I type this (stupid camera won't record longer than 1:45 at a time). Since out here in the sticks, DSL is the best I can do, they won't be viewable until tonight.

All original 2000MY 2wd Reg. cab with 272K miles.
Currently -4 (was -12 last night), not driven (or even started) for two weeks, not plugged in, 250-200%, VHAE9J2 (XLE4) PCM.

Your lucky! I don't even have the option of DSL where I live. Have to use a 4g lte device to get to the internet. No unlimited data option either.
 

Charles

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
2,727
Reaction score
32
Also, Charles, I got a look at your posted calibration. It's not my place to say what's right or wrong with it if it works for you, but I could make three suggestions right off the bat although it would suit MY driving style....probably not yours....as well as clean up some cold-start issues.

That's the whole point. It's a proof. Instead of everybody working on the task in their own dark cave somewhere.

Excuse the ICP table.... I literally ran the values straight over and sliced a ravine in it for idle. As I said, I haven't made love to this file yet, I basically just ran down the road and it was surprisingly good, plus I haven't had much time to do much.

Aside from that, and a disparity in ICP running up to ~3200 ish on the top on the scanner, even though I have 3000 in the map, I don't know any better as to what's messed up.

But I sure will appreciate the criticism.



I'll put that calibration in the pickup in the video and see what happens (when it warms up, of course in a couple of days). I can't promise anything will come of it though since my injectors HATE 200% calibrations for other trucks.

How can you reliably run my program on a non Txxxxx whatever pcm? Sounds like a cut and paste nightmare. How can you be sure it will run the same? I have suuuuuuuper low sucess doing this. Always some kind of parameter or function in the background totally altering something in a different way.

I'm not concerned in terms of "if you like the program or not", you can see that by looking at it in the proper template anyway. I ask more as a question of how in the hell you could reliably flop a program from one template to another like that.

Fwiw.... if your truck is an auto, and you did get the program I posted to come over as it drives in my truck, I think you just might like it. Unless of course, the thing with the crazy slow injectors you spoke of ruins it for you.

Regardless, I'm curious to see what your thoughts are. Or those of anyone who's pulled it up.



Lastly.... I had no idea we were both cruising around in basically stock trucks with 200 nozzles... I swapped the turbo because the late model superduty turbo is junk and the 38R was laying on my floor.

And I wouldn't recommend a 200 for a grocery getter. That's why my grocery getter is a bone stock excursion that my wife drives!

I have advocated that the 200 EDM takes over at around 300hp. I however wouldn't be surprised if when AT full power, the nozzle weren't actually already more efficient than stock at even sub 300rwhp. It's then more a case of usage. If the truck's hooked to 16,000lbs all the time, the 200 wins because you're going to be deep in desired power all the time. If the truck runs around empty, then the stock nozzle would win because desired power would probably be in the 80hp range or something most of the time where the 200 EDM is probably less efficient.
 

cleatus12r

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2014
Messages
163
Reaction score
2
Location
Reed Point, MT
Charles said:
How can you reliably run my program on a non Txxxxx whatever pcm? Sounds like a cut and paste nightmare. How can you be sure it will run the same?

Easy. Lots of time doing it and knowing what to change to accomodate it. I'll put a TNAA4S2 pcm in it since copying and pasting to an E99 pcm doesn't work without some math. However, copying and pasting maps means that I can put an XLE4, PMT1, or VDH2 pcm in the truck in mere seconds and have a great-running truck with either....the tunes won't work too terribly wl in someone else's truck, but it allows me to play with a lot of other things.


Fwiw.... if your truck is an auto, and you did get the program I posted to come over as it drives in my truck, I think you just might like it. Unless of course, the thing with the crazy slow injectors you spoke of ruins it for you.

They won't idle or do light load stuff well but acceleration will work fine.
 

lincolnlocker

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
27,887
Reaction score
150
Location
Central Michigan
hell, my 6.7 starts like that when it is near zero outside..

live life full throttle

god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
 

mandkole

Active member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
2,303
Reaction score
2
Location
Northwest
I was surprised it cranked as good as it did. My starter and/or relay gets a little pissed after 2 weeks at 25f.
 

Latest posts

Members online

Top