6.0 Class Action Law Suit..

Charles

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Toomuch03... You are way low on brains.

In one sentence, ignoring the 421,000 idiot statements that need correction, the MAIN correction you need is that the suit IS what is holding people accountable for their decisions and actions. The suit is holding FORD responsible for the pile of complete DOG**** they let out the door for an unsuspecting public to deal with while offering no ACTUAL solution to the core problemS, only bandaid sh*t to get them back out the door long enough to crest the warranty period.

The suit IS what holds people accountable. You say there's no responsibility anymore, then chastise the very means of enforcing it....

Idiot...


And the cake would be IF YOU ***ING OWN ONE.....WHILE YOU TELL PEOPLE HOW STUPID THEY ARE FOR STILL OWNING ONE!!!

Do you? Is it even possible that you actually own one and have landed the full idiot/irony trifecta???

Please say yes...

LOL
 
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SickStroke6.0

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Toomuch03... You are way low on brains.

In one sentence, ignoring the 421,000 idiot statements that need correction, the MAIN correction you need is that the suit IS what is holding people accountable for their decisions and actions. The suit is holding FORD responsible for the pile of complete DOG**** they let out the door for an unsuspecting public to deal with while offering no ACTUAL solution to the core problemS, only bandaid sh*t to get them back out the door long enough to crest the warranty period.

The suit IS what holds people accountable. You say there's no responsibility anymore, then chastise the very means of enforcing it....

Idiot...


And the cake would be IF YOU ***ING OWN ONE.....WHILE YOU TELL PEOPLE HOW STUPID THEY ARE FOR STILL OWNING ONE!!!

Do you? Is it even possible that you actually own one and have landed the full idiot/irony trifecta???

Please say yes...

LOL

I'm pretty sure Charles gets off by attempting to belittle 6.0L owners. Pretty sad, eh?

Charles, do us all a favor and go back to fixing your "high and mighty" POS 7.3L and let people enjoy their trucks instead having to deal with pansies like you.
 

Snake

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Toomuch03... You are way low on brains.

In one sentence, ignoring the 421,000 idiot statements that need correction, the MAIN correction you need is that the suit IS what is holding people accountable for their decisions and actions. The suit is holding FORD responsible for the pile of complete DOG**** they let out the door for an unsuspecting public to deal with while offering no ACTUAL solution to the core problemS, only bandaid sh*t to get them back out the door long enough to crest the warranty period.

The suit IS what holds people accountable. You say there's no responsibility anymore, then chastise the very means of enforcing it....

Idiot...


And the cake would be IF YOU ***ING OWN ONE.....WHILE YOU TELL PEOPLE HOW STUPID THEY ARE FOR STILL OWNING ONE!!!

Do you? Is it even possible that you actually own one and have landed the full idiot/irony trifecta???

Please say yes...

LOL


LOL LOL
 

Charles

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I'm pretty sure Charles gets off by attempting to belittle 6.0L owners. Pretty sad, eh?

Charles, do us all a favor and go back to fixing your "high and mighty" POS 7.3L and let people enjoy their trucks instead having to deal with pansies like you.


"Broken" for my 7.3 is that it drives me back and forth to work, pulls loads and dyno'ed like 630, on fuel, uncorrected last time IIRC.

My "broken" 7.3 probably still outruns 99% of the trucks owned by morons in this thread...


And things aren't rhetorical when they're true. For those who received them, the letters in the mail explaining how to receive reimbursement for your pile of sh*t engine should have clarified that nicely. But alas..... if you're dumb enough to think there's nothing wrong with the 6L, then you're too dumb to see blatantly obvious things. If you fall into this category then skip this post as it won't make any sense, lol.
 
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yeehaw

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"Broken" for my 7.3 is that it drives me back and forth to work, pulls loads and dyno'ed like 630, on fuel, uncorrected last time IIRC.

My "broken" 7.3 probably still outruns 99% of the trucks owned by morons in this thread...


And things aren't rhetorical when they're true. For those who received them, the letters in the mail explaining how to receive reimbursement for your pile of sh*t engine should have clarified that nicely. But alas..... if you're dumb enough to think there's nothing wrong with the 6L, then you're too dumb to see blatantly obvious things. If you fall into this category then skip this post as it won't make any sense, lol.

thanks.......? guess I'm just a moron.....

Sent while drifting the dually
 

SickStroke6.0

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"Broken" for my 7.3 is that it drives me back and forth to work, pulls loads and dyno'ed like 630, on fuel, uncorrected last time IIRC.

My "broken" 7.3 probably still outruns 99% of the trucks owned by morons in this thread...


And things aren't rhetorical when they're true. For those who received them, the letters in the mail explaining how to receive reimbursement for your pile of sh*t engine should have clarified that nicely. But alas..... if you're dumb enough to think there's nothing wrong with the 6L, then you're too dumb to see blatantly obvious things. If you fall into this category then skip this post as it won't make any sense, lol.

Hmmmmm... I guess I'm crazy to think that your 7.3L sat for years because it didn't run? Oh wait.. LOL Bash the 6.0L all you want, it won't hurt anybody's feelings. Sadly, most 6.0L's have a lot more run time than your 7.3L. Your 7.3L may outrun some of the trucks in this thread, when it's actually running, but not when it's sitting in pieces in your barn. LOL

Please tell us about how much money you dumped in that slow 7.3L to make 630 HP.... Meanwhile, 6.0L owners are putting half that in their motors and getting similar or better results.

If you're dumb enough to think that there's nothing wrong with the 7.3L, then you're also too dumb to see blatantly obvious things. Nothing is perfect, besides your AWESOME 7.3L, of course. LOL
 

Charles

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Hmmmmm... I guess I'm crazy to think that your 7.3L sat for years because it didn't run? Oh wait.. LOL Bash the 6.0L all you want, it won't hurt anybody's feelings. Sadly, most 6.0L's have a lot more run time than your 7.3L. Your 7.3L may outrun some of the trucks in this thread, when it's actually running, but not when it's sitting in pieces in your barn. LOL

Please tell us about how much money you dumped in that slow 7.3L to make 630 HP.... Meanwhile, 6.0L owners are putting half that in their motors and getting similar or better results.

If you're dumb enough to think that there's nothing wrong with the 7.3L, then you're also too dumb to see blatantly obvious things. Nothing is perfect, besides your AWESOME 7.3L, of course. LOL


My truck sat for less than a year at my house with a blown front pump in the trans while I built my shop at home so I wouldn't have to drive to another mans shop to pull my own trans ever again.

The truck only sat because I would not allow myself to fix it until I could do it at my own house. Makes for a good motivator when it comes to building a shop.

Fwiw, the truck still drove. In fact, I fired it up and drove it into my shop once I had my 2 post lift up and had walls, doors, lights and a trans jack...

Lastly, aside from the guys with 6.4's, I doubt very many, if any have as many hours over 600rwhp as my truck that you're talking about. I'm talking about actual time logged AT 600rwhp, putting power to pavement... not driving around like a fag never cracking 112rwhp all day. That truck probably went 4 straight years at 630 to 650rwhp on fuel pulling 20,000lb trailers, outrunning corvettes and dragging equipment through muddy pastures with huge roosts coming off all 4 tires all in a single program that I wrote.

In other words, stop focusing on what you know nothing about, and soak in the fact that the 6L is such a documented fail that anyone having owned one now has a written letter mailed to them to confirm it...
 

TooMuch03

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I now have a Ford warranty for the next six years so I wont need to buy parts, if there is something not right with the truck, Ford will fix it like they should.. I know were you comming from with the "it's never my fault attitude" but I disagree with the fact that you think it is the consumers fault if they buy a truck with a motor that is plagued with issues and not the manufactures..

Than you for the mature, intelligent response. I understand how it is frustrating to purchase a new vehicle and have to take it in for warranty claims on a regular basis. I have no argument that it should not be that way. I will clarify here that my point is simple, no one is forcing the owner of said vehicle to keep it after the warranty has expired. I do not think it is the consumers fault to buy a vehicle with problems, however, it is the consumers fault if they, having seen the issues, decide to keep the vehicle.

So far I'm underwhelmed. Sorry to have disappointed you

You experiences must differ widely from my own. I've never viewed going to the dealership to buy a brand new vehicle as a gamble. Every purchase made is a gamble, you buy new with a warratny to eliminate some of the risk of that gamble. When you keep it after the warranty expires, then you accept all the risk of that gamble.

Have you ever even owned a new vehicle? Doesn't cost a penny, huh? Other than being stranded, leaving the vehicle and wondering if it's going to be broken into, having it towed to the dealership, the time without a vehicle while it's being repaired (or being stuck in some econobox that you wouldn't buy if it was the last car on Earth), and paying the deductible (usually around $100), you're right. It doesn't cost hardly a penny. A lot of 6.0 owners were "lucky" enough to go through all this multiple times because the same part failed over and over again. I will give you that. The inconvenience of having to repair your vehicle can be costly, often embarrassing too. Is that what you are hoping this suit will compensate you for? If so, I have to wonder why you made no effort to seek compensation when you were experiencing the inconveniences. It is only now, when someone else will do the work for you, that you believe you are entitled to compensation for the hassles of the repairs under warranty.

No chit? Well thanks for explaining that. I was totally confused how the warranty worked. But an oil cooler replaced at 90k miles shouldn't fail again at 105k miles. Just AFTER the warranty expires. I will ignore the sarcasm here and just say, that oil cooler was a known risk that was taken. The warranty is very clear. You certainly wouldn't be only person on the planet to spend money on repairs just after the warranty expired.

This almost sounds like something that a Ford Public Affairs rep would say to get out of things. "It's your fault, Mr. Customer, for choosing to continue to own one of our products." Take that weak sauce somewhere else.

Did you even read the letter? Be honest -- there were too many big words in there for you, you got frustrated, and just threw it out. Right?

Your personal attacks do nothing for your position. I don't know what your experience is with class action lawsuits, but it has been seen time and time again that the only people who make any money are the lawyers involved. What they say you may be entitled to and what you receive are often two very different amounts. Whenever this suit is settled, please come on here and tell us all about the mass sums of money that you have received.

Toomuch03... You are way low on brains.

In one sentence, ignoring the 421,000 idiot statements that need correction, the MAIN correction you need is that the suit IS what is holding people accountable for their decisions and actions. The suit is holding FORD responsible for the pile of complete DOG**** they let out the door for an unsuspecting public to deal with while offering no ACTUAL solution to the core problemS, only bandaid sh*t to get them back out the door long enough to crest the warranty period.

The suit IS what holds people accountable. You say there's no responsibility anymore, then chastise the very means of enforcing it....

Idiot...


And the cake would be IF YOU ***ING OWN ONE.....WHILE YOU TELL PEOPLE HOW STUPID THEY ARE FOR STILL OWNING ONE!!!

Do you? Is it even possible that you actually own one and have landed the full idiot/irony trifecta???

Please say yes...

LOL

I must say the confluence of third grade level name calling, gross exaggeration, and complete misunderstanding of my point is quite comical. You will notice, if you take the time to read my posts here, that I never told anyone they were stupid for owning a 6.0, nor did I state that the 6.0 was a master of engineering. I admit that the 6.0 is plagued with issues, and I clearly stated that the decision a person makes to keep a vehicle after the warranty expires, or to purchase a used one with no warranty, is their responsibility.

I do in fact own a 6.0, so I have, according your logic, "landed the full idiot/irony trifecta." For future reference, a "trifecta" generally consist of three components, based on the prefix "tri" meaning three, perhaps you should think of another adjective to describe my apparent lack of intelligence. The difference between myself and those who embrace this suit is that I accept responsibility for my choice to own one.

I will reiterate my point that it is not the consumers fault to purchase a faulty new vehicle. That is something that the manufacturer is responsible for, and the warranty is what holds the manufacturer responsible for their flaws in design and manufacture. When a consumer decides to retain after warranty, or purchase used, a vehicle, they have to accept responsibility for the repairs that are necessary. If the consumer does not want the financial responsibility, they should go buy a vehicle with a warranty instead. This suit holds no one responsible, it merely makes a few lawyers some money.
 

Petro

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My truck sat for less than a year at my house with a blown front pump in the trans while I built my shop at home so I wouldn't have to drive to another mans shop to pull my own trans ever again.

The truck only sat because I would not allow myself to fix it until I could do it at my own house. Makes for a good motivator when it comes to building a shop.

Fwiw, the truck still drove. In fact, I fired it up and drove it into my shop once I had my 2 post lift up and had walls, doors, lights and a trans jack...

Lastly, aside from the guys with 6.4's, I doubt very many, if any have as many hours over 600rwhp as my truck that you're talking about. I'm talking about actual time logged AT 600rwhp, putting power to pavement... not driving around like a fag never cracking 112rwhp all day. That truck probably went 4 straight years at 630 to 650rwhp on fuel pulling 20,000lb trailers, outrunning corvettes and dragging equipment through muddy pastures with huge roosts coming off all 4 tires all in a single program that I wrote.

In other words, stop focusing on what you know nothing about, and soak in the fact that the 6L is such a documented fail that anyone having owned one now has a written letter mailed to them to confirm it...

I hope I get the chance to buy you a beer someday. These well thought out posts make this site as good as it is.
 

Charles

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I must say the confluence of third grade level name calling, gross exaggeration, and complete misunderstanding of my point is quite comical. You will notice, if you take the time to read my posts here, that I never told anyone they were stupid for owning a 6.0, nor did I state that the 6.0 was a master of engineering. I admit that the 6.0 is plagued with issues, and I clearly stated that the decision a person makes to keep a vehicle after the warranty expires, or to purchase a used one with no warranty, is their responsibility.

What you did was to tell a guy that payed ______ thousand dollars for a truck that he was an idiot for continuing to own the thing after the warranty expired, when the reality is that he had already dumped all that money into the purchase of that truck and having a few things replaced under warranty was not indicative of continuing non-stop bs AT THAT TIME. You fail to realize that NOW it is painfully obvious that a 6oh is a pos. THEN... it wasn't. THEN.... you had all your thousands of dollars gone, vs a resale value that would not lead a person to decide to dump a truck they had no reason to believe would continue to plague them till the day they died...


I do in fact own a 6.0, so I have, according your logic, "landed the full idiot/irony trifecta." For future reference, a "trifecta" generally consist of three components, based on the prefix "tri" meaning three, perhaps you should think of another adjective to describe my apparent lack of intelligence. The difference between myself and those who embrace this suit is that I accept responsibility for my choice to own one.

YES!!! SCORE.... you ARE that stupid, lol.

Btw, it was a trifecta in that....

1. You gave people the business about accountability, while simultaneously shunning the lawsuit, the sole purpose of which is to HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE...

2. You gave people the business about continuing to own a 6oh after the warranty period at a time when we as consumers DID NOT KNOW yet that the 6oh was an epic fail...

3. You yourself STILL OWN ONE out of warranty!!!


I did not break that down for you, but for non-idiots to ensure your stupidity doesn't taint anyone else. I'm sure that will all elude you yet again.


I will reiterate my point that it is not the consumers fault to purchase a faulty new vehicle. That is something that the manufacturer is responsible for, and the warranty is what holds the manufacturer responsible for their flaws in design and manufacture. When a consumer decides to retain after warranty, or purchase used, a vehicle, they have to accept responsibility for the repairs that are necessary. If the consumer does not want the financial responsibility, they should go buy a vehicle with a warranty instead. This suit holds no one responsible, it merely makes a few lawyers some money.

And what you don't GET..... is that when something is REPAIRED under warranty, you, as a logical person.... make the assumption that whatever failed was rectified, and should be okay now.

Unfortunately, with the 6oh, Ford, due to their having to drag Navistar, kicking and screaming behind them, was not able to actually FIX any of the problems the 6oh was having. So your warranty "repairs", did nothing to actually make the truck right, leaving the consumer up sh*t creek without a paddle after the warranty expired.

It's like a guy calls with a roof leak after you installed his roof. When you get up there you see that the roof can never be made to last because say the caulking is exposed to direct UV, or there's a penetration that cannot be sealed as installed, or anything.... but seeing that the warranty period is about to expire, you gob some silicone or polyurethane over the problem and a year later it's hemorrhaging again... but hey.... not your problem anymore.

See how that works? That's fraudulent, and it is EXACTLY the type of ethics that you started off talking about being the problem with this country, but then turned right around and ridiculed others for trying to enforce...


Lastly, this suit is not directed toward people purchasing the vehicle AFTER the warranty was up, but those who went and bought a truck and later realized it was a pile of crap that had been bandaided together long enough to get them out the door until the warranty expired.


Have a good one.
 

TooMuch03

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What you did was to tell a guy that payed ______ thousand dollars for a truck that he was an idiot Prove it. Quote me. Unlike you I don't need to resort to name calling.for continuing to own the thing after the warranty expired, when the reality is that he had already dumped all that money into the purchase of that truck and having a few things replaced under warranty was not indicative of continuing non-stop bs AT THAT TIME. I suppose replacing head gaskets, new heads, turbo, and injectors all under 100k is normal, not indicative of a problem... You fail to realize that NOW it is painfully obvious that a 6oh is a pos. THEN... it wasn't. I maintain that it was obvious. There should not have been that many major repairs under warranty. But there was. THEN.... you had all your thousands of dollars gone, vs a resale value that would not lead a person to decide to dump a truck they had no reason to believe would continue to plague them till the day they died... So there are multiple problems within the first few years of the trucks life. What makes any reasonable person believe the that vehicle will some how become more reliable as it gets older?

YES!!! SCORE.... you ARE that stupid, lol.

Btw, it was a trifecta in that....I stand corrected. Though, I must note that your post addressing me only really makes point 1 and 3 below. However, you did make it clear that you think I am an idiot, if that is your third point.

1. You gave people the business about accountability, while simultaneously shunning the lawsuit, the sole purpose of which is to HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE...Are you really so naive to believe that this law suit is to hold Ford accountable. How will it do so? Will it make Ford change how it does business or will it make them discontinue the 6.0... oh wait... they already did. Will it benefit, in any significant way, those who dealt with the new 6.0s? I think not.

2. You gave people the business about continuing to own a 6oh after the warranty period at a time when we as consumers DID NOT KNOW yet that the 6oh was an epic fail...Again, if a new vehicles has multiple problems within the first few years of its existence, what makes you think it will magically become a reliable vehicle after the warranty expires?

3. You yourself STILL OWN ONE out of warranty!!! Correction, I purchased one out of warranty, knowing the issues and accepting them. Again if you actually read my posts instead of blindly attacking everyone who doesn't 100% agree with your point of view, you would have known that.

I did not break that down for you, but for non-idiots to ensure your stupidity doesn't taint anyone else. I'm sure that will all elude you yet again.

And what you don't GET..... is that when something is REPAIRED under warranty, you, as a logical person.... make the assumption that whatever failed was rectified, and should be okay now.Really, for the third time, when a vehicle has multiple serious repairs done within the first few years of its existence, what reasonable person is to assume that it will become more reliable as it gets older?

Unfortunately, with the 6oh, Ford, due to their having to drag Navistar, kicking and screaming behind them, was not able to actually FIX any of the problems the 6oh was having. So your warranty "repairs", did nothing to actually make the truck right, leaving the consumer up sh*t creek without a paddle after the warranty expired.Really, what more is to be done than to replace the broken part with brand new. An injector fails, it is replaced with a new one. The turbo fails, it is replaced with a new one. Something tells me, the only way that yo would be satisfied with Ford's repair to any 6.0 would be to remove and replace with the mighty 7.3

It's like a guy calls with a roof leak after you installed his roof. When you get up there you see that the roof can never be made to last because say the caulking is exposed to direct UV, or there's a penetration that cannot be sealed as installed, or anything.... but seeing that the warranty period is about to expire, you gob some silicone or polyurethane over the problem and a year later it's hemorrhaging again... but hey.... not your problem anymore. Interesting analogy, but I feel this would be more akin to if your headgasket was leaking and the dealer just threw some stop leak in there to get you past your warranty, not removing and replacing the Heads, headgaskets and headbolts (or even head studs if you supplied them)

See how that works? That's fraudulent, and it is EXACTLY the type of ethics that you started off talking about being the problem with this country, but then turned right around and ridiculedreally? Quote me. I prefer to leave the ridiculing to you. others for trying to enforce... Your example is fraudulent, I agree. However, like I said, it is not really an illustration of what really happens. I think Ford has been held responsible, by the consumer. Warranty work cost them millions, diesel sales suffered, they had a nasty split with Navistar. And, they deserved all of it. I do not see this as further punishment, it is just an example of the entitlement attitude that is so prevalent. Ford made a crappy motor, they limped it along through the warranty. Now Ford owes me money because I decided to keep it after they were no longer required to keep limping it along.


Lastly, this suit is not directed toward people purchasing the vehicle AFTER the warranty was up, but those who went and bought a truck and later realized it was a pile of crap that had been bandaided together long enough to get them out the door until the warranty expired.


Have a good one.

I am 100% aware of who the suit is supposedly going to help out. I can understand how someone would be frustrated if they had problems shortly after the warranty expired. I am sorry, but the warranty is the warranty, and no manufacturer, regardless of the product, will repair the product if it is out of the warranty. It's been a pleasure, Charles.
 

Snake

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And what you don't GET..... is that when something is REPAIRED under warranty, you, as a logical person.... make the assumption that whatever failed was rectified, and should be okay now.

Unfortunately, with the 6oh, Ford, due to their having to drag Navistar, kicking and screaming behind them, was not able to actually FIX any of the problems the 6oh was having. So your warranty "repairs", did nothing to actually make the truck right, leaving the consumer up sh*t creek without a paddle after the warranty expired.

Best point yet.
 

6speedsd

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Best point yet.

X2

Replacing one broken part with a new part that has the same design will not FIX anything. That's the issue I have with all this. This motor had the same issues its whole production run. Why wasn't something corrected in the first couple years? Instead, the same junk parts were put on there each and every year. Sure they made so called improvements from year to year, but did it help anything? Warranty work got the same junk parts. If you have a known problem with a new engine, you correct it.
 

Atsah

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Bottom line is,

People bought diesel trucks to make money with figureing it would last 3-4 hundred thousand miles with minimal problems and instead bought a truck that after 100K they were spending piles of money on due to design flaws..
This suit makes Ford eat some of the that, ya the lawyers will make out better than anyone, the people with the trucks will recover a little, the point is Ford has to spend money for there mistakes and that's what's needs to happen IMO.. I have nothing against Ford, I just bought a new one, I love there trucks and allways have but they screwed up, and now they need to man up and take responsibility for there failure to ship a quality product..
 

bboteler

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So...let me see here. A 7.3 owner comes here gets his rocks off bashing a 6.0 owner because ford gave some money admitting to the problems that were caused by and or from the motor....and believes because he has a 7.3 he is somehow better that us who own a 6.0. Yup think that sums it up. WOW...hope that made you feel special and empowered.

No one forced anyone to own a 6.0 is a free country and we can own whatever brand make or model we choose...takes a big guy to say someone is wrong just because they don't see things like you do.
 

yeehaw

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So...let me see here. A 7.3 owner comes here gets his rocks off bashing a 6.0 owner because ford gave some money admitting to the problems that were caused by and or from the motor....and believes because he has a 7.3 he is somehow better that us who own a 6.0. Yup think that sums it up. WOW...hope that made you feel special and empowered.

No one forced anyone to own a 6.0 is a free country and we can own whatever brand make or model we choose...takes a big guy to say someone is wrong just because they don't see things like you do.

reason for my post, guess i am just a moron. Whatever, i love my truck ,reason I PAY FOR IT, it treats me well, i drive it everyday, most days 60-100 miles. It tows frequently too. Motor is all factory original, sort of fluids and batteries (of course) and i put exhaust on it. I am sorry to the owners of these trucks that have had issues, and i do think they need to be reimbursed. BUT i just don't like being downgraded because I own something I enjoy.
 

Snake

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I enjoy my truck most of the time, or it would have been sold. But I do chuckle whenever someone says what a great motor the 6.0 is.
 

suprdzlduty

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Guys, we can argue about this all we want...what it boils down to is that people do not maintain their vehicles like they should. I have many customers with 500k plus on their 6.0's. did ford take advantage of some customers, yes...the service dept did. It's a shame. One of those dealers is Grahm Ford in Columbus, Ohio...yeah I'm calling you out...they charged customers for items covered under warranty. Bad service manager...they are out of business now. However we today's society has the mentality that someone else is always at fault. The government and EPA is the real issue here...if someone would really think about the effects of that then we could get to the heart of the issue. Kinda like Ronald Reagan said..."I'm from the government and I'm here to help"...we all know what that means. And the workin man suffers the effects of the government tryin to "help". Something to think about. We can can argue and whine all we want on these forums but in the end, as always, it's up to the American ingenuity in all of us to make products better...did all of us really drive a vehicle that was totally stock? We never modified anything to make it better? Did we ask the factory to make our mustangs faster and more reliable? NO. We did that ourselves. What's done is done. We are never going to stop making products that come from Detroit better...why? Because they are like the government...they don't live in the real world. Rant over.
 

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