Responsive Turbo/compounds Thoughts

Hotrodtractor

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Over the years several times the idea of having a very responsive turbo setup either in a single or a compounded setup has arisen many times. On many of those occasion things get discussed like a supercharger for instantaneous response, small turbos for no lag, VGTs, etc..... Often I've brought up the compound setup off of my Duramax that uses a high pressure VGT turbo and about an 76mm atmosphere charger - incredibly responsive, actually can make boost at idle (1-2psi if I tune the vanes closed completely at idle), etc... For those that have not seen the setup on my Dmax - here it is:



Occasionally - I have a lot of different parts and projects rolling through the shop and I had a good opportunity to do a good visual comparison of what it could look like and the level of work involved to toss one of these Dmax VGT turbos onto a 7.3 - I used this as a mock up because I had it - and because they have an EXCELLENT record of being capable of flowing good amounts of air in a stock and modified condition - the VGT in these pictures is a modified stock with a 72mm inducer compressor that has proven itself to be an 800hp charger on a Dmax - and I believe its a solid 550hp charger on a 7.3 perhaps more. Now to give everyone a comparison I also happened to have an S400 charger on a Turbonetics T4 mount hanging out in the shop - so I will post pictures of the S400 charger, then follow up a comparable picture to of the VGT. It should be noted that the VGT charger should be moved a bit farther ahead than the pictures show - this is due largely due to the way I had to mock up this setup - as you will see in the pictures.

S400:



VGT:



S400:



VGT:



Front of VGT - notice that you will have to rework the intake wye going into the engine in order to clear the intake of the turbo.



I'm not saying it would be easy - and I don't think I would do it for competition, but I think this could be a very fun way to setup up a daily driver/ tow truck with compounds - but I am heavily biased because this is so similar to what my DD/ tow truck has been for the last several years. Its just food for thought to get some creative juices going and add a little bit different flair to the usual stuff that we see on here - I'm not building it - its just parts I had "laying around".

Jason
 

Hotrodtractor

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Also - I should add that the VGT is only 1/2" taller than the S400 turbo in the pics - and that it could end up close to the same height if a true mounting plate was built and not a 2x6 to sit on. LOL
 

MINK

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You already know - but I love this. There is know reason that the correctly sized compounds couldnt be extremely responsive along with making huge power.
 

blackbetty13

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How would a set up simailar to brian jelichs do on street i know he said he made 100psi of boost but thats was when he launched it correct? is a set up as big as his responsive enough to daily drive.
 

Hotrodtractor

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How would you control it?

There lies the real trick to making it work - you would need a controller capable of being programmed to adjust a PWM signal to the turbo (you can't do a Holset off of say a Cummins as easily because it requires a canbus signal without a lot of modifications to the setup). Essentially a microprocessor with inputs for say throttle position, and boost where you would then adjust the vane position based on those parameters and control it all through a simple program - I know that someone will bring up the fact that there are also aftermarket controllers available - but I suggest you speak to any of the manufacturers and discuss what you want to do before embarking on that.
 

pontiacross

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How would you control it?


I always wondered if you could control a vgt turbo solely based off of back bressure. as the drive comes up it would open the vanes up. but you would still need some kind of comtroller that could convert the ebp signal to a pulse width signal to control the turbo....
 

Hotrodtractor

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I love the idea honestly. Main reason my truck is still running a vgt...

I wanted to toss it out there simply because I love how the similar setup runs on my DD - no reason it can't be applied to this dinosaur.

Also - you could hook up a back pressure sensor and use that the help control the vanes as well if desired - there is a ton of flexibility if you take on the concept of making the controller yourself, but not everyone has that capability.

I just wanted to get everyone out there thinking. Its been too stale in the 7.3 section lately. :D
 

V-Ref

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I always wondered if you could control a vgt turbo solely based off of back bressure. as the drive comes up it would open the vanes up. but you would still need some kind of comtroller that could convert the ebp signal to a pulse width signal to control the turbo....

Better yet......could you plumb a 12V map sensor to your EBP piping, and run the controller above?
 

V-Ref

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What about just a manual knob that the driver can tweak based on intended application for the moment...i.e. want quick response, and going to go tow.......done towing, and want to lower drive pressure for higher rpm stuff....

downsized_0912001019.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-WBVXwcwls
 

91turbogsx

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Why couldn't we just try to use a 6.4 twin setup? May even be able to not have to modify the intake Y with that setup.
 

pontiacross

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This fella uses a mechanical diaphram WG controller to actuate a VGT actuator arm.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEfXLh49Hfk

that could be done pretty easy on the turbo the IH dt466 and dt570's run, because they use an external linkage like that too. how ever those turbos would probably have to modified to flow enough air to be usefull.
 
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Big Bore

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Ha! I clicked on this thread hoping to get some insight on making a responsive compound tow setup that would have low EGT's and work well at high altitude. Oh well. LOL
 

Dieselboy.

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Hurry up and finish one project :poke:

What about the PCS software ? It has quite a few PWM slots available on it ? Not sure if there is a table you could use but maybe just a % table based off of a MAP sensor ?
 

Hotrodtractor

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Ha! I clicked on this thread hoping to get some insight on making a responsive compound tow setup that would have low EGT's and work well at high altitude. Oh well. LOL

Sorry to disappoint?

Seriously - what about a VGT wouldn't be great for lowering EGTs and working well at altitude?

Again - I just wanted to play a little - I've got this sitting here - what can we do with it scenario. All too often these forums get filled with the same old crap over and over again - so I decided to add some different crap. :toast:
 

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