6.0 common rail project

01PSD · Feb 13, 2013

That right there would be my worst fear realized.. LOL

Meniacal_Mark · Feb 13, 2013

Talk about a wiring nightmare

:slap::shocked:

RedRice589 · Feb 13, 2013

Crazy i think i'll stick with minor stereo mods for my wiring expertise. Pay you guys for the rest.....

Powerstroked162 · Feb 14, 2013

imelmo said:
Watching, although I know I shouldn't. :doh: LOL

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Says the guy who said a 6.4 swap was a waste LOL

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imelmo · Feb 14, 2013

Well it is imo. A 6.0 will make 700-800hp on fuel and 1100hp on da juice fairly reliably. Not terribly far off what a 6.4 can reliably do. So not worth the pain of an engine swap to me. But if you can just swap the injection system for another 100+ reliable hp, that's a different story in my book.

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Fast-6.0 · Feb 14, 2013

imelmo said:
Well it is imo. A 6.0 will make 700-800hp on fuel and 1100hp on da juice fairly reliably. Not terribly far off what a 6.4 can reliably do. So not worth the pain of an engine swap to me. But if you can just swap the injection system for another 100+ reliable hp, that's a different story in my book.

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The difference is torque. The 6.0 doesn't make much in comparison to the 6.4.

Pizza pig · Feb 14, 2013

Fast-6.0 said:
The difference is torque. The 6.0 doesn't make much in comparison to the 6.4.

which can also be a downfall in the reliability LOL

01PSD · Feb 14, 2013

Just ask the shafts in the tranny's

LOL

Spectre32 · Feb 14, 2013

Whats the diffferance in torque #'s or % wise for a given horsepower?

jdgleason · Feb 14, 2013

Spectre32 said:
Whats the diffferance in torque #'s or % wise for a given horsepower?

No linear number. Just as a general rule. A lot has to do with common turbo configuration.

Fast-6.0 · Feb 14, 2013

Spectre32 said:
Whats the diffferance in torque #'s or % wise for a given horsepower?

The equation is at 2626 rpm your torque is double your horsepower. A tuned 6.4 makes peak hp right about this rpm or sooner. So a 600hp 6.4 will make 1200 ft-lbs of torque. A 600hp 6L is probably closer to 3500 rpm at peak hp and probably makes about 1000 ft-lbs of torque. Cuz it probably makes 500 hp at 2626 rpm. Make sense?

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Feb 14, 2013

Fast-6.0 said:
The equation is at 2626 rpm your torque is double your horsepower. A tuned 6.4 makes peak hp right about this rpm or sooner. So a 600hp 6.4 will make 1200 ft-lbs of torque. A 600hp 6L is probably closer to 3500 rpm at peak hp and probably makes about 1000 ft-lbs of torque. Cuz it probably makes 500 hp at 2626 rpm. Make sense?

But if you put similar sized single chargers and the same cam the torque curve would be very similar. Horse power and torque have a lot in correlation with bore and stroke. In which the two engines are very close to each other. 6.4's torque comes from compound chargers and a little bit of cam profile differences. They both have 105mm stroke the 6.4 has 3mm more bore. So by bore/stroke relation the 6.4 has a higher rpm powerband than a 6.0 if both similarly equipped.

Just think
big bore short stroke=higher rpm band
Big stroke small bore=lower rpm band
Given the rest of the engine is the same.

Spectre32 · Feb 14, 2013

Fast-6.0 said:
The equation is at 2626 rpm your torque is double your horsepower. A tuned 6.4 makes peak hp right about this rpm or sooner. So a 600hp 6.4 will make 1200 ft-lbs of torque. A 600hp 6L is probably closer to 3500 rpm at peak hp and probably makes about 1000 ft-lbs of torque. Cuz it probably makes 500 hp at 2626 rpm. Make sense?

Indeed it does, as does the answer following it. So based upon what you have just said the HP/TQ curve difference is due to the turbo setup and not a fuel injection...IE true common rail.... thing then? I assume having more "options" for injection event manipulation and whatever other advantages a common rail vs. HEUI would be, helps to some degree...but is that more of a "fine tuning" characteristic? Is that a correct way of thinking about this?

Wayne · Feb 28, 2013

Update:

We finally got another key component in for the truck. Stage 4 transmission with Extreme Duty converter. Steed speed manifolds & FS 2500 are also on.

A few more days, and the turbos & up pipes will be on.

Meniacal_Mark · Feb 28, 2013

Lookin good, that truck will make a good sleeper.

kornfanjoe · Feb 28, 2013

Sledpull said:
But if you put similar sized single chargers and the same cam the torque curve would be very similar. Horse power and torque have a lot in correlation with bore and stroke. In which the two engines are very close to each other. 6.4's torque comes from compound chargers and a little bit of cam profile differences. They both have 105mm stroke the 6.4 has 3mm more bore. So by bore/stroke relation the 6.4 has a higher rpm powerband than a 6.0 if both similarly equipped.

Just think
big bore short stroke=higher rpm band
Big stroke small bore=lower rpm band
Given the rest of the engine is the same.

Injection makes a big difference, the 6.4 has more injection sequences per stroke, higher injection pressures leading to better atomization thus more power with the same fuel. It's a lot more than just the basic stroke bore cam equation of old engines. If it were we wouldn't be using tuners we would change cams like the old days!
My dad can't believe the power difference by plugging in a computer it boggles him!

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Mar 1, 2013

kornfanjoe said:
Injection makes a big difference, the 6.4 has more injection sequences per stroke, higher injection pressures leading to better atomization thus more power with the same fuel. It's a lot more than just the basic stroke bore cam equation of old engines. If it were we wouldn't be using tuners we would change cams like the old days!
My dad can't believe the power difference by plugging in a computer it boggles him!

The 6.4 torque comes from the factory compounds if you didn't read that part in my statement. Also I stated that they would be very similar in torque with similar sized singles. Torque does not get made with fuel. Your turbo map dictates when the boost comes in which determines how soon or later your powerband starts. Fuel injection events at low rpm-low boost doesn't make really any power difference just efficiency. Tip pressure between a 6.0 injector and a 6.4 injector is not that different either, both peak at over 20,000 psi.

I made a general comparison to the 6.0 and 6.4 that stated they are very similar. The 6.4 has more torque until you take away the compounds then they would be nearly identical on the power curve given the same HP engine with similar sized turbos.

The cam has little to no difference between the two except for an 03 6.0 cam.

And I hate to tell you, but bore and stroke still do matter. If that's not true then duramax's shouldn't make power at higher rpm because of their .150" larger bore and shorter stroke when compared to a 6.4 either?

This is all basic engine 101 and it does apply either gas or deisel or any other fuel. Bore, stroke, cam timing, lobe lift, head flow, turbo size, all have everything to do with your power curve, not just what type of injector the engine runs.